Home NAS Advice

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    • Home NAS Advice

      Hi all,

      I have been planning ot build a NAS for a while now. I was always goign to use FreeNAS, however, I want to keep my existing Hauppauge 2200 dual tuner (and it doesn't have BSD drivers). Fortunately, there are Linux drivers, so i can give OMV a go. I was also reading up on SnapRAID plugin as an option to try as well.

      I'm in Australia, and so finding suitable parts at a reasonable price is difficult to say the least. Plus, to get ECC RAM support and dual Intel NIC's is not an easy feat. Then, I'd like adequate power to support all the plugins and probably transcoding to other devices, whilst keeping the system low on power usage as it'll be on 247.

      So here's the build so far:
      CPU - Intel i3 6100
      MOBO - Supermicro X11SLL-F
      RAM - Kingston 2x 8GB ECC ValueRAM
      CASE - Fractal Design Define Mini
      PSU - Seasonic G-450W or Antec TPC-450W

      I'll probably get a small SSD for the OS, I have a 2TB WD Red NAS and will either get more or get some 4TB ones (taht's why SnapRAID is appealing, as I can build as I go).

      Any thoughts on this build? Or my suggested OMV/SnapRAID option instead of ZFS? Is ECC necessary, as it's much easier/cheaper to get a basic Gigabyte B150M-D3H and standard DDR4 ram than source the Supermicro board and ECC RAM from overseas...plus the warranty issues? I'm probably not as worried about losing dual NIC capability.

      This is for a home NAS to store family photos/videos, as well as streaming various media, FTA TV recordings, maybe surveillance camera recordings at some stage.

      cheers,
      gabs

      The post was edited 1 time, last by gabs247 ().

    • I don't use ECC on most of my servers :) I would try the gigabyte board. @subzero79 is in Australia as well. So, he could probably comment on sources of hardware.

      Is the NAS for backup or storage? I ask because you really need backup source if the OMV box is your only source of important files. SnapRAID is a good option but it isn't backup. You could use the unionfilesystem plugin to create a mergerfs pool to make all those drives appear as one. It is easy to add drives to the pool as you get more.
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      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • Thanks ryecoaaron. I keep going to and fro with these options, G4400/gigabyte, i3/supermicro, or asrock c2750 board! I just can't justify the premium of the c2750 for the potential power savings, espeically if it's not as capable as the i3...how much power could it save, hopefully not that much in comparison to an efficient i3?

      and the supermicro is a bit of a risk when purchasing overseas, so I'm more comfortable buying the cheaper options. but as i said it means no ECC/dual nic. I can spring for a dual Intel NIC on gigabyte board for an extra $100 if that's worth it.

      this is mainly for storage, but I want to RAID the server to protect the data. I guess there's a risk of corrupting and losing it all as well. My backup system would be with USB drives, one onsite/offline and one offsite (monthly swap to my parents house). that's only for the irreplaceable data (personal photos/videos) that can't be replaced. there's is an option to replicate online to my parents house as well, but I like being able to take USB offline (reduce cryptolocker risk).
    • The i3 shouldn't draw much more power than the C2750.

      You don't need a dual port NIC (unless you want to bond them). You can buy a single port NIC and use the motherboard NIC if you truly need two NICs.

      SnapRAID will protect you but I would use the rsnapshot plugin on the OMV box. If you don't share the destination folder of rsnapshot, that is very good protection from cryptolocker. Using a usb drive is a good idea for backup especially the offsite part.

      I think you are going in the right direction :)
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      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • Home NAS Advice

      gabs247 wrote:

      Thanks ryecoaaron. I keep going to and fro with these options, G4400/gigabyte, i3/supermicro, or asrock c2750 board! I just can't justify the premium of the c2750 for the potential power savings, espeically if it's not as capable as the i3...how much power could it save, hopefully not that much in comparison to an efficient i3?

      and the supermicro is a bit of a risk when purchasing overseas, so I'm more comfortable buying the cheaper options. but as i said it means no ECC/dual nic. I can spring for a dual Intel NIC on gigabyte board for an extra $100 if that's worth it.

      this is mainly for storage, but I want to RAID the server to protect the data. I guess there's a risk of corrupting and losing it all as well. My backup system would be with USB drives, one onsite/offline and one offsite (monthly swap to my parents house). that's only for the irreplaceable data (personal photos/videos) that can't be replaced. there's is an option to replicate online to my parents house as well, but I like being able to take USB offline (reduce cryptolocker risk).


      Greetings from Oz.

      From personal experience I rate the Asrock boards above Gigabyte (less buggy firmware & more active support).

      I would lean toward more power efficient CPU's rather performance unless you're really going to be hammering your NAS with apps running on it as well in which case a new low power Core i5 is my recommendation.

      N.B. Encryption is becoming a more important part of our lives with each passing day. Choose a CPU which supports AES-NI extensions as this greatly improves its power to handle on the fly encryption tasks. OpenVPN? File encryption/decryption?

      ECC ram gives some peace of mind but is controversial. Probably not a top priority at home.

      We all want our terabytes of family memories & other stuff to move around/back up etc as quickly as possible. You would be amazed what a difference in throughout there is between manufacturers. Intel NIC's are top notch, Broadcom based NIC's fall behind in performance but not too bad & Realtek NIC's are bottom of the performance ladder. Especially under Linux.

      Don't get caught up too much on RAID. For home use 0 for performance or 1 for alleged safety. Levels above that are for Fortune 500 companies or folks with very deep pockets & misplaced faith in RAID..

      For multiple reasons by all means have USB offline/near line backups. It's cheap & a life saver.

      If you're going to build a NAS I recommend use good gear or forget it & buy a SOHO off the shelf NAS. Cobbling together a 'cheap' DIY NAS will disappoint.

      Have you looked at the HP micro servers as a basis for setting up a DIY box? If too costly look in Gumtree. Bargains to be had there.
    • Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Intel NIC's are top notch, Broadcom based NIC's fall behind in performance but not too bad & Realtek NIC's are bottom of the performance ladder. Especially under Linux.

      While I agree that Intel NICs are top notch, my Dell servers (T410, T430 - both use BCM5716) are just as stable and fast as my Intel NICs.

      Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Don't get caught up too much on RAID. For home use 0 for performance or 1 for alleged safety. Levels above that are for Fortune 500 companies or folks with very deep pockets & misplaced faith in RAID..

      I have no problems recommending raid 5 for a server that is running 24/7 with battery backup. Adding one extra drive doesn't require deep pockets. I still have faith in raid as well. I have lost a drive in the past. Having a raid 5 array allowed me to wait a few hours to fix (yes, I have backups) and the people using it never knew.
      omv 4.1.14 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.13
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • Home NAS Advice

      ryecoaaron wrote:

      Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Intel NIC's are top notch, Broadcom based NIC's fall behind in performance but not too bad & Realtek NIC's are bottom of the performance ladder. Especially under Linux.

      While I agree that Intel NICs are top notch, my Dell servers (T410, T430 - both use BCM5716) are just as stable and fast as my Intel NICs.

      Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Don't get caught up too much on RAID. For home use 0 for performance or 1 for alleged safety. Levels above that are for Fortune 500 companies or folks with very deep pockets & misplaced faith in RAID..

      I have no problems recommending raid 5 for a server that is running 24/7 with battery backup. Adding one extra drive doesn't require deep pockets. I still have faith in raid as well. I have lost a drive in the past. Having a raid 5 array allowed me to wait a few hours to fix (yes, I have backups) and the people using it never knew.


      Twin $4000 servers + RAID 5 array's ($$$) + UPS big enough to power it al ($$$$$) ... a little outside the OP's parameters don't you think? :P

      Mouth watering fantasy for SOHO users

      I've seen $10,000 arrays go down in the first 5 minutes. I've lost count of how many expensive UPS units I've had to return for repair.

      Call me gnarled & cynical :)
    • I was in a similar dilemma a while back. I knew that going the route of Supermicro MB and ECC RAM would make the build expensive. This is a combination popular with folks over at FreeNAS. OMV is rather lenient in terms of hardware. I decided go with i3-4130, Gigabyte GA-H97N Mobo. and 8GB DDR3. i3 is good CPU if you would use Plex. I went with Silverstone DS380 case which is pricey but gives 8HDD and 4SSD slots. Even though I use SnapRaid for single drive failure, I would highly recommend keeping a backup.
    • Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Twin $4000 servers + RAID 5 array's ($$$) + UPS big enough to power it al ($$$$$) ... a little outside the OP's parameters don't you think? :P

      Mouth watering fantasy for SOHO users

      I've seen $10,000 arrays go down in the first 5 minutes. I've lost count of how many expensive UPS units I've had to return for repair.

      $4000 servers? Those are servers I maintain that I was using as an example for the broadcom NICs not the servers I run at home :) My main server at home is self-built and has an eight drive raid 5 array of Samsung F4 2 TB drives that I paid $60 each. I use a Cyberpower CP1350 UPS. So, my home setup is right inline with the OP's parameters :)
      omv 4.1.14 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.13
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • Home NAS Advice

      ryecoaaron wrote:

      Peter.Weyland wrote:

      Twin $4000 servers + RAID 5 array's ($$$) + UPS big enough to power it al ($$$$$) ... a little outside the OP's parameters don't you think? :P

      Mouth watering fantasy for SOHO users

      I've seen $10,000 arrays go down in the first 5 minutes. I've lost count of how many expensive UPS units I've had to return for repair.

      $4000 servers? Those are servers I maintain that I was using as an example for the broadcom NICs not the servers I run at home :) My main server at home is self-built and has an eight drive raid 5 array of Samsung F4 2 TB drives that I paid $60 each. I use a Cyberpower CP1350 UPS. So, my home setup is right inline with the OP's parameters :)


      My rough rule of thumb regarding NIC's was in the context of SOHO. Your reply was regarding enterprise gear. Of course enterprise NIC's work well, that's why they're so pricey.
      In my country 2Tb HDD's will set back a SOHO user AUD100 - AUD200 (new) each. Sounds like you have a nice little setup at home. Just remember, with RAID 5+ it's all wonderful when it works but when it doesn't kiss your data goodbye. Cheers mate!
    • The Broadcom adapter I mentioned is an onboard adapter. Dell puts it in cheap Poweredges as well.

      I purchased the drives over four years ago when drives were cheap. I've been using mdadm raid for over 10 years. Never had an issue other than drive failure myself. I backup my daya so my data won't be lost :)
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    • Corruption/bit rot - depends on the files. A bad bit in a movie won't even been noticeable. Never experienced a noticeable issue myself.

      UPS - Yes. always a good idea.
      omv 4.1.14 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.13
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • Home NAS Advice

      gabs247 wrote:

      Thanks for the opinions. What about corruption or bit rot? Is a UPS a good idea?


      UPS if you can afford it yes.
      I'd recommend a brand you can buy & get serviced locally. They do fail. Alternatively buy cheap but keep a spare for when the first dies.

      Bit rot. A big concern in enterprise environments & tons of money is thrown at it via very technical means. Expensive RAID setups, expensive server grade motherboards with ECC RAM & exotic file systems etc..

      In DIY/SOHO environment make redundant offline copies with cheap storage eg a HDD in a small fire proof safe & another HDD at a secure third party location. 'Cloud' backups are all the rage. I'm not a fan of it but it suits some.

      There is no truly satisfactory answer to archival storage for home users AFAIK at this point in time.
    • Peter.Weyland wrote:

      They do fail. Alternatively buy cheap but keep a spare for when the first dies

      At my previous job (industrial environment with a good amount of power surges), I maintained about 65 UPS units from 350 VA to 2200 VA. I have three at home as well. Replaced lots of batteries but never actually had one fail (I did receive one new APC unit that never worked from the beginning). I used a mix of CyberPower and APC, cheap and expensive. Batteries always lasted longer in the CyberPower units.
      omv 4.1.14 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.13
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

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    • have seen bit rot issues before ... and do not want this happen on my archives (yes, I do have backup which I will also will convert from Raid5 to ZFS later - it is a HP microserver with ECC - cf. signature)
      and with Skylake and low power and affordable server motherboards becomming avail. ZFS is not longer out of reach even at home. there are good articles about zfs.
      my latest build is based on OMV 3.x beta and still needs power optimization when kernel 4.4+ will become available(is still in the testing) ... but expect OMV 3.x and next kernel backport release being avail. soon
      investigating USP looks like a good idea - what is the typical idle power consumption ?
      latest OMV Erasmus | 64 bit | backport kernels | latest omvextrasorg
      low power Skylake NAS build <= 10 watts idle (4 disks), Fujitsu D3417-B, 16GB ECC RAM, 4x4TB WD Red - RAIDZ1, 128GB M.2 NVMe SSD boot.
      backup NAS HP Proliant N54L, 4GB ECC RAM, 4x4TB WD Red - RAID 5, 30GB SATA boot.
    • I've never had a bad Intel motherboard. They usually lack features compared to a other boards but are very stable. Looks like a nice board especially the IPMI.
      omv 4.1.14 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.13
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • never had issues wit Intel motherboards... cf. here
      IPMI is nice in professional environments - but at home ? - takes also significant power... and $$
      Fujitsu 24/4 server board D3417-B is a good server alternative and low power in idle compared with home ARM based NAS.
      And if you go for latest C236 Skylake architecture then you get up to 7/8 x sata
      latest OMV Erasmus | 64 bit | backport kernels | latest omvextrasorg
      low power Skylake NAS build <= 10 watts idle (4 disks), Fujitsu D3417-B, 16GB ECC RAM, 4x4TB WD Red - RAIDZ1, 128GB M.2 NVMe SSD boot.
      backup NAS HP Proliant N54L, 4GB ECC RAM, 4x4TB WD Red - RAID 5, 30GB SATA boot.