Quite cheap NAS build - please advice

fzardi · 9. Oktober 2016

Hi all

I'm about to build my first DIY home NAS. I already have an old Qnap TS-412 which is going to pass away...

A few days ago I was about to buy Qnap TS-451A, but I realized that I could have much better with about the same money. Probably I will run OMV in it, because FreeNAS, as far as I know, needs ECC support which would eventually push me too far away from the prefixed budget (different MB, CPU and RAM modules).

So the goal is to have a cheap home system for important data storage, home entertainment (audio/video flawless streaming, consider that all of my house is cat6-wired. I think I would use Plex server), and hopefully surveillance station in the future.
I was thinking to make a row of WD Red in Raid 5 configuration, and a single WD Purple for surveillance data.

The first question is: is a hardware raid controller required/suggested? I know it isn't for FreeNAS, which uses raidz and zfs file system. What about OMV and other OS (i.e. Nas4Free)?

However, the configuration I was thinking about is:

Fractal Design Node 304 case
Corsair CX450M psu
Asrock J3710-ITX mb+cpu
Crucial 16GB (2x8) ram
Lexar USB3.0 pendrive 16GB for the o.s.
WD Red and WD Purple for data

For a total cost of about 340 euros (about 380 american dollars) excluding HDDs.

What do you think about it? Do I miss anything? Is it enough for my purposes?

Thank you so much

ryecoaaron · 9. Oktober 2016

Zitat von fzardi

is a hardware raid controller required/suggested?

No, it isn't required. I do think they all more reliable than software raid. A lot of people don't even need raid for a home system. We have a pooling plugin (unionfilesystems) that make the drives look like one drive but you would only lose the data on one drive. You can even use snapraid to get non-realtime redundancy. Which brings me to my next question... Since raid is not backup, how are you going to back up this system.

Zitat von fzardi

What do you think about it? Do I miss anything? Is it enough for my purposes?

Overall, I think that system will treat you well. Just a few design considerations to make. You definitely want to use the flashmemory plugin (install immediately) since you are using a usb stick for the OS.

fzardi · 9. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

Which brings me to my next question... Since raid is not backup, how are you going to back up this system.

Well, actually I already use a Raid5 configuration in my Qnap. I know it's not a backup, but it saved my ass twice, when my seagates broke...
However, I will probably have important data also synchronized whith a backup HDD or a cloud service... do you suggest anything else?

Zitat von ryecoaaron

You definitely want to use the flashmemory plugin (install immediately) since you are using a usb stick for the OS.

Well, the idea of a usb stick comes from the first intention to install FreeNAS. They suggest it, even in high end configurations (2 pens mirrored). Is for OMV a problem, or is it simply not suggested? Should I change my mind for it and buy a little SSD for the OS?

Another question: the MB has 4 SATA ports. Do I need a single port for every HDD? If I have to buy a SSD for OS I will probably need more than 4...

ryecoaaron · 9. Oktober 2016

Zitat von fzardi

do you suggest anything else?

Nope

Zitat von fzardi

Well, the idea of a usb stick comes from the first intention to install FreeNAS. They suggest it, even in high end configurations (2 pens mirrored). Is for OMV a problem, or is it simply not suggested? Should I change my mind for it and buy a little SSD for the OS?

FreeNAS runs in memory. Basically, OMV does not unless you use the flashmemory plugin. So, the usb stick would not last long if you have monitoring enabled (writes lots of little logs/data files). My backup server uses a usb stick with the flashmemory plugin and has been running for almost two years.

Zitat von fzardi

Do I need a single port for every HDD? If I have to buy a SSD for OS I will probably need more than 4...

Yes. SSDs are nice but not necessary. I wouldn't connect data drives via usb. If you use the usb stick and the flashmemory plugin, you should be fine.

fzardi · 9. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

Yes. SSDs are nice but not necessary. I wouldn't connect data drives via usb. If you use the usb stick and the flashmemory plugin, you should be fine.

Or perhaps I could add an additional pci sata controller to the mb...

gderf · 9. Oktober 2016

If you want to have OMV on an SSD and save a MB SATA port, consider putting the SSD into one of those external SATA to USB cases and boot the machine from USB. I run my OMV machine this way and it works fine.

Dropkick Murphy · 9. Oktober 2016

The J3710 Pentium can only handle up to 8GB, according to Intel: http://ark.intel.com/de/produc…0-2M-Cache-up-to-2_64-GHz

HTH

What about https://www.amazon.it/HP-81918…op-Computer/dp/B013UBCHVU
Maybe with a better CPU and more RAM for streaming reason?

Excessive Info for the Microserver: http://www.hardwareluxx.de/com…2-microserver-963207.html

(in german)

fzardi · 10. Oktober 2016

Zitat von Dropkick Murphy

The J3710 Pentium can only handle up to 8GB, according to Intel: http://ark.intel.com/de/produc…0-2M-Cache-up-to-2_64-GHz

HTH

What about https://www.amazon.it/HP-81918…op-Computer/dp/B013UBCHVU
Maybe with a better CPU and more RAM for streaming reason?

Excessive Info for the Microserver: http://www.hardwareluxx.de/com…2-microserver-963207.html

(in german)

Alles anzeigen

Hi

Yes, according to Intel J3710 can't handle 16GB, but Asrock tells it actually can in this mobo (tested).

HP Microserver is very interesting. VERY interesting. I'm trying to get as many info as I can about using it as a NAS server... I think it could be a good solution. Thank you

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Can anyone tell me which SATA configuration might be best for OMV? I have the option for ATA, AHCI, or RAID On.

And that leads to another question. I can see from other posts that it is generally believed that hardware RAID is preferred over software RAID. Since my current SATA configuration is RAID On, would that explain why about 72MB appear in the file system as used? In other words 72MB used for RAID setup on each HDD?

Nibb31 · 20. Oktober 2016

Hardware RAID is the only way to install OMV on a RAID system drive. So you should only use it for the system drive, if you really need RAID for that.

For data drives, software RAID is better, because it is independent from the controller. That means that if your hardware fails, you can pull out the drives and read them in another setup. With hardware RAID, if your hardware fails, then the drives are likely to be unreadable without the exact same hardware setup.

Haeris · 20. Oktober 2016

Hello,

Perhaps, I'm a little late and you bought everything.

In my case, I have assembled a custom made NAS, only for storage, with the following:

Giada N70E-DR ~130€ (MB)
8Go S-DIMM DDR3 RAM ~45€ (RAM)
Fractal Design Node 304 ~85€ (Case)
550W 80+ Gold ~70€ (Power supply)

And concerning the HDD:

1 WD Blue 500Go (OS)
5 WD Red 4To (Storage)

In 5 days, my NAS will have 2 years. It's powered on 24/7 backed by an UPS.

I have made a RAID 6 because I was too paranoid to lose something(first time assembling a NAS and the MB is unknown) so I have 12To of effective storage. i use OMV.
In R/W from/to the NAS, I'm always at full speed (100Mo/s).

The only "thing" where I'm not so happy is the power supply. It's completly overkill but I could not find one with less Watt and gold.

After 2 years, (even if the Motherboard was unknown, first time assembling a NAS and managing it) I'm happy with it and OMV.
I only had to replace the HD used for OS, but once done and OMV reinstalled, everything was here.

ryecoaaron · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von curious1

Can anyone tell me which SATA configuration might be best for OMV? I have the option for ATA, AHCI, or RAID On.

AHCI

Zitat von Nibb31

Hardware RAID is the only way to install OMV on a RAID system drive. So you should only use it for the system drive, if you really need RAID for that.

If you install Debian first, you can install the system drive on software raid.

Zitat von Nibb31

For data drives, software RAID is better, because it is independent from the controller.

I would say this is true about using fake hardware raid on desktop motherboards because of incompatibilities between those raid implementations. But an LSI (or other brand) hardware raid controller is much better than software raid for reliability and speed. You can always get another card and put that in a different system.

Zitat von Haeris

I have made a RAID 6 because I was too paranoid to lose something

No backup?? Raid is not backup. I know you have been lucky for two years but very dangerous. Plenty of people have not been able to reassemble their software raid array.

Haeris · 20. Oktober 2016

For the moment, I have an external HDD used to backup the most important files.
Beginning of the next year, I will buy a small NAS to replace it.

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

AHCI

Thanks. In a previous reply, I had mentioned that my 1TB drives were all showing 931MB available and 76MB used, which I had assumed was because of partitioning under the hardware's RAID. So I have unmounted the drives and am going to now repartition using cfdisk.

One important question: when the utility comes up, I have 97 choices. The ones I think are valid [and I think I really don't know what I'm talking about, but just from observation during setups and such] are 1) GNU HURD or Sysv, 2) Linux swap / Solaris, 3) Linux, or 4)GPT.

Anyone have an opinion?

ryecoaaron · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von curious1

mentioned that my 1TB drives were all showing 931MB available and 76MB used

This is a MB vs MiB issue. There is no fix to this because they are describing the amount of bytes in different terms.

Why are you partitioning? Just use the OMV web interface. OMV doesn't use partitions for software raid either.

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

Why are you partitioning? Just use the OMV web interface. OMV doesn't use partitions for software raid either.

Sorry. Thought I had to partition, once I change the SATA type.

I'm not sure if my changes are being applied - still having a lot of errors from the interface (which I am beginning to think has something to do with the interaction with my server hardware). And now the banner "The configuration has been changed. You must apply the changes in order for them to take effect" keeps reappearing - I must be doing something wrong.

ryecoaaron · 20. Oktober 2016

If you keep seeing the apply banner, then something is working right. At this point, I have no idea what is wrong. Have you looked at the logs in the web interface?

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

If you keep seeing the apply banner, then something is working right. At this point, I have no idea what is wrong. Have you looked at the logs in the web interface?

Did you mean "something ISN'T working right"? I am looking at the system logs. Is there anything I should be looking for? Errors, fatals, something else?

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Zitat von ryecoaaron

If you keep seeing the apply banner, then something is working right. At this point, I have no idea what is wrong. Have you looked at the logs in the web interface?

OK. I looked at the System Logs, but didn't see anything that I would recognized as a big problem (of course, i don't really know what I'm looking at ). But I clicked on Revert and the banner disappeared. I figured that something was hung, and Reverting might clear it back out. Seems to have worked.

curious1 · 20. Oktober 2016

Regarding the Apply banner not going away ...

I have two "devices", listed as NTFS, showing in File Systems that I have unsuccessfully tried to get rid of, and so have been hoping to ignore, but I think they are screwing things up.

/dev/disk/by-uuid/1824999724997908 [no label] [ntfs] [not available] [not used]
/dev/disk/by-uuid/1824999724997908 [no label] [ntfs] [not available] [not used]

Don't know where they came from or how to get rid of them. I have repartitioned all of my HDD's and reformatted them, but to no avail. My boot is on a 32GB stick that formatted to ext4 (and I have installed the flashmemory plug-in), so I don't think they are associated with that. So when I Apply the configuration changes for other things, like mounting the HDDs, first I get an Error pop-up that says:

Failed to execute command 'export LANG=C; monit -t 2>&1': /etc/monit/conf.d/openmediavault-filesystem.conf:12: Error: service name conflict, fs_media_1824999724997908 already defined '"/media/1824999724997908"

Then in the Details I get the following:

Error #4000:
exception 'OMVException' with message 'Failed to execute command 'export LANG=C; monit -t 2>&1': /etc/monit/conf.d/openmediavault-filesystem.conf:12: Error: service name conflict, fs_media_1824999724997908 already defined '"/media/1824999724997908"'' in /usr/share/openmediavault/engined/module/monit.inc:56
Stack trace:
#0 /usr/share/openmediavault/engined/rpc/config.inc(180): OMVModuleMonit->applyConfig()
#1 [internal function]: OMVRpcServiceConfig->applyChanges(Array, Array)
#2 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpcservice.inc(125): call_user_func_array(Array, Array)
#3 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpcservice.inc(158): OMVRpcServiceAbstract->callMethod('applyChanges', Array, Array)
#4 /usr/share/openmediavault/engined/rpc/config.inc(224): OMVRpcServiceAbstract->callMethodBg('applyChanges', Array, Array)
#5 [internal function]: OMVRpcServiceConfig->applyChangesBg(Array, Array)
#6 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpcservice.inc(125): call_user_func_array(Array, Array)
#7 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpc.inc(79): OMVRpcServiceAbstract->callMethod('applyChangesBg', Array, Array)
#8 /usr/sbin/omv-engined(500): OMVRpc::exec('Config', 'applyChangesBg', Array, Array, 1)
#9 {main}

Anyone got any ideas?

Quite cheap NAS build - please advice

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