OMV a solution?

geaves · 3. Mai 2017

I couldn't find the 'newbie alert' please introduce yourself section

Anyway having read some reviews and a lot of thread reading on here I am wondering if OMV would kill '2 birds with 1 stone' so to speak.

I currently have 2 Intel Servers, ex school servers, (I do IT support for a local school, and the old servers have to be disposed of ) one runs an open source NAS the other Ubuntu server 16.04 which in turn is set up for Emby.

The NAS has an Intel Xeon 3050 (2 Core) 2Gb Ram 2x250Gb and 2x1Tb drives, the Ubuntu server has an Intel Xeon X3220 (4 core) 4Gb Ram 2x250Gb and 2x1Tb drives.

As an interim my thoughts are use the Ubuntu set up increase the ram to double or triple, place all the 1Tb drives in the case and use an SSD or one of the may laptop drives I have to install OMV and Emby, thought being I could run the 4x1Tb drives as a RaidZ using zfs, or create 2 mirror vdevs and 1 zpool, or the obvious 2 mirror vdevs and 2 zpools. This is what I'm not sure of if I want to increase capacity later one.

The redundant server could then be turned into a snapraid at a later date.

Ok I have to back up the working data and run dban across the drives....wouldn't be the first time.

Many thanks for any pointers

vl1969 · 3. Mai 2017

what would be your end goal for OMV? any long running plans?
how much data do you plan to have?

Keep in mind !!!
OMV does not allow sharing the disk it is installed on. so plan to have a dedicated OS disk.
also do not connect install any disk drives other than what you want to use for OS at this time.
make it a lot easier to install/setup the system/
if you want/need a fast boot get a small SSD for OS install.
OMV does not work with ZFS out of the box you need a plugin.
it also does not install on anything but plain Linux FS so if you have other preferences you will need to do extra steps, like setting up Debian Jessie system first than loading OMV on it.
that allows you to ,for example, do an install on raided(raid-1) OS disks.
maybe even using ZFS for root like so
than install OMV on that setup. there is a how-to exists on this forum.

once done and rebooted, make sure you can get to the OMV webUI and all is upto date,
add the data disks to the server. they should show up in OMV disks tab.
from there you can manage them as needed.
not sure, but if using ZFS you might need to do some setting up using CLI for that.

BTW, OMV support Snapraid and mergerFS as well, using plugins. and let me tell you it works beautifully.

geaves · 3. Mai 2017

Thanks for the reply.

Zitat von vl1969

what would be your end goal for OMV? any long running plans?

End goal, probably the same as what I have now, so a file server and Emby on the same box.

Zitat von vl1969

how much data do you plan to have?

That's the hard one.....and it would depend on how various collections grew within Emby. The file storage is both for myself and the wife, I create howto's for the school I work for as well maintaining information regarding that, my wife is a teacher and she has loads of stuff....don't go there...I usually copy some of her data to an external usb after a few years, she hasn't twigged that yet

I take in what you commented about installing on a single drive for the OS only, something I would do, and not adding additional drives until the gui was set up.

ZFS is not a must have it's what I currently have on my nas. Looking at that a Raid5 with the current 4x1Tb would give me at least 3Tb of usable space which as a starting block would be enough.

TBH, I can't see that installing Debian Jessie then OMV would be of any benefit, in fact it would just be more work initially. But somewhere on here there is a thread about installing Emby, the main package from their own own repo's rather than using the plugin and I can't find it again. I was interested to read more into it so see if it was Emby's repo and doing the install from cli, under omv.

If the above is possible then I think a move to omv would make sense, and I could look at the other server box to initiate a full backup solution. Looks as if the dban cd will come again

vl1969 · 3. Mai 2017

well here is why I asked the questions.
I am not keen on ZFS myself, it is very new to me and a bit difficult yet.
I used BTRFS before, and still do, so I understand that. I get the gist of how to setup and use ZFS but not like it very much for overall use. still think it is complicated

however I would not discourage any one else from using it if they know how.
that said, the benefits of installing Debian first and than OMV on it, would be

1. if you want to have raided OS setup. i.e. install the system on mirrored drives for greater uptime/stability. I do it, I like the option to keep running even if one of the drives fails and being able to just replace the drive re-silver and be on my way, but it might be overkill for most.

2. if you want to install/setup on ZFS root. not possible with OMV.

3. if you want to have custom mappings/directory tree, whatever,that is not supported by OMV installer.

now, it looks like everything you want to do is possible on OMV.
keep in mind that with a few exceptions you can instal a third party apps on OMV just fine just need to be careful editing any system files as they might interfere with OMV but you can ask question here beforehand.

geaves · 3. Mai 2017

Zitat von vl1969

I used BTRFS before, and still do, so I understand that

That's used by Rockstor, thought about trying that. but OMV seems to have excellent reviews and from what you have answered would fulfil my needs.

I've read your thread regarding setting a raid OS, I can understand why you do it but for me it would be overkill, so long as I can backup/save a config file/xml that should be enough.

Well I've already started backing up my data, the next step will be to run dban, then move all the drives around, hopefully, perhaps by the weekend I start an installation then by Sunday/Monday I can start asking the usual 'noob' questions.

Thanks for your input.

vl1969 · 3. Mai 2017

well Rockstore uses btrfs exclusively, just like some mainstream distros do now.
OpenSuse, RHELL to name the few.
it is becoming an accepted FS in mainstream.
OMV has limited support for it but you can still use it if desired.
OMV recognise it, and can format drives with it. but to setup a native btrfs raid volume(similar to ZFS volume) you need to use CLI.
as for backing up I am not sure it is possible to backup/restore OMV configuration.
you can save the config file but you can not import it back in.
but I might be wrong.

geaves · 3. Mai 2017

Zitat von vl1969

as for backing up I am not sure it is possible to backup/restore OMV configuration.
you can save the config file but you can not import it back in.

I have found that there is a config.xml that you can save, there is a thread about what to do regarding a reinstall, so somewhere in the gui there must be an option to import that config.xml after you have completed a reinstall and reconnected your data drives, either that or you copy that config and overwrite the newly created one and reboot.

But I don't relish the idea of cli for zfs or btrfs, on my current system it's all in the gui for zfs....I'm still a noob when it comes to anything Linux and I find I have to search for a lot of what I want to know or understand.

I had/have an issue with my current setup, my Ubuntu server has symlinks back to the nas for Emby......last week the nas starting maxing the cpu long story short found a solution on bugzilla. This was a kernel issue relating to smb the workaround was to add deadtime = 0 to the smb.conf global, that sorted it until today when I had to reboot the nas....had an issue with ram usage in the gui and top....after the reboot ram sorted, high cpu....so I rebooted the server and it was all Ok again.

crashtest · 4. Mai 2017

Zitat von geaves

The NAS has an Intel Xeon 3050 (2 Core) 2Gb Ram 2x250Gb and 2x1Tb drives, the Ubuntu server has an Intel Xeon X3220 (4 core) 4Gb Ram 2x250Gb and 2x1Tb drives.

Wow,,, Intel Xeon's, multiple processors, PS's rated at 700+ watts, etc., etc., for a few NAS users?
I mean, golly!

The whole virtualization movement, back in the day, was rooted in two basic concepts. Servers, with enormous capacity, were idling in data-centers while consuming Kilowatts of power, 24x7, all the while creating an enormous heat load which required tons (literally) of air conditioning to keep the heat load in check (industrial A/C, yet another major infrastructure and power expense). Virtualization of multiple server OS's, on a single box, where those multiple Xeon processors could actually be utilized, greatly reduced hardware costs while expanding capacity, reducing the heat load and hardware footprint.

You know, I have a fairly extensive Cisco test bed. When I power it up all at once, the lights in the room dim slightly for a moment. The test bed consists of industrial strength networking equipment that I could use, in a routing role, for a college campus or two. I have enough switching capacity for a medium sized business. (A COSTCO for example.) Could I use it at home? Sure! I know it well, I can configure blindfolded (well, that's a stretch) and there would be ZERO network bottle necks. Wire speed!

But I wouldn't use it at the house because these boxes are big, really noisy (fans) and they spin my power meter. Over the course of a year, I'd spend a couple hundred dollars (maybe more?) just to power these devices 24x7. So I use green consumer grade 1GB 8 port switches (that shut off unused ports and sleep when not used) and a consumer wireless router. All are paid for in the first year in power savings alone.

Now, DON'T get me wrong. We all have priorities and I, like you, tend to gravitate toward "high performance" and "familiar things". And I know I'm talking about "around town gas mileage" to guys with "top fuel dragsters", who don't see the need for economy. I get that. But let's admit it, for just two or three users, "Geo Metro like" consumer grade equipment will do the job.
_____________________________________

With that said, a 16GB boot drive is all that OMV needs. After the initial boot, where the working parts of OMV are in RAM, fast media, like an SSD might make the Web interface a bit more responsive.
(This information came to me curtesy of a forum moderator.)
Outside of the Web GUI, performance wise, there's little difference between an SSD and a USB thumb drive after the boot cycle is over. Since most servers are running 24x7, boot times are not an important issue.
(*If using a thumb drive, just remember to install the Flash media plugin and configure it. BTW - it's dirt simple to clone a USB thumb drive for backup.*)
Why not use the SSD in a desktop client, where its' speed will make a real difference?

If transcoding of streams is not involved - I'd also argue:
From the "GEO Metro point of view", in a NAS role, a quad core ATOM 64 processor is enough to move files around. If you wanted to step it up a bit, with multiple media server functions running on OMV, maybe an Intel Celeron might be better. (Preferably a notebook type processor, for power purposes, coupled to data hard drives that will spin down.)

Setting aside ZFS, which has stiff RAM requirements, 4GB is enough even with an outsized page cache. After all, OMV is running on Debian linux which, without a desktop environment, is lean and brutally efficient.

You can see what I'm running , below, which is a minimalist 12 to 15 watt approach. (I call it "nightlight" power.) For what I'm using it for, full files backup of the main file server and a bit of client imaging, it's working fine. But even the main server is a minimalist quad core ATOM 64 with 4 GB and it's running "bloatware" very well for a few users. (It's Windows Home server right now. It will be OMV soon enough.)

Now, don't beat me up over this. It's just a different approach and an "el-cheap-o" point of view.
(I mean, even if it will get you from point A to B, some folks would never drive a GEO Metro.)

geaves · 4. Mai 2017

Zitat von flmaxey

Now, don't beat me up over this

Not at all I completely agree with what you're saying, if I hadn't got the above for zero cost then I would be looking toward something more lean and green. For some reason this week when I was working at home I decided to google for open source nas, I came across a site that reviewed 5, 1 I had tried, 1 I was using, 2 I had researched before, then there was OMV...hm!! not heard of that. Read through each review, pros and cons....then he rated them...OMV came top the one I use was bottom.
So off I went again and with the help of mr google I start reading up OMV before finding myself here, and it seems it will do what I need, file server and a media server without the need to use jails or vm's, and I can use just one machine.

Zitat von flmaxey

If transcoding of streams is not involved - I'd also argue:

That's the kicker, until I can convert mkv's to mp4's I'm going to need something that can transcode.

I have 2 other servers at home which I have to take to recycle centre, one's an HP Proliant Gen4 and the other is a Dell which uses the old iSCSI drives (used to be the schools library server).

TBH I hadn't thought about using a flash drive simply from the fact that you can image/clone these. Ok noob question 'Flash media plugin' I'm guessing this has something to do with read/write on the flash drive.

geaves · 4. Mai 2017

Zitat von flmaxey

*If using a thumb drive, just remember to install the Flash media plugin and configure it

See....noob question....before I go out and buy a flash drive I thought I would install on an laptop drive (this is v2.1 from sourceforge) painless and installed the extras plugin....but!! I can't see/find anything that says flash media plugin or is this something you have to download/upload and install.....and in the updates there's shed loads, just tick the root box and install?

Nibb31 · 4. Mai 2017

You need to install openmediavault-extras to see and enable most plugins. Follow the instructions here:
http://omv-extras.org/joomla/

geaves · 4. Mai 2017

refreshed the plugins....and I can see folder2ram which I assume @flmaxey is referring too regarding using a usb flash.

Nibb31 · 4. Mai 2017

No the plugin is called openmediavault-flashmemory. It is for installs where the OS is on a USB thumb drive or an SD card.

geaves · 4. Mai 2017

well got flash drive ready for install....once done I'll know what I'm looking for.....adding to that my case fan has died

crashtest · 4. Mai 2017

Regarding the Flashmemory plugin:

What version of OMV are you planning to start off with? In any case the following will cover the two possibilities.

For OMV 2.x (stoneburner) - openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all.deb
For OMV 3.x (erasmus) - openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all3.deb

Download the file from one of the two links (that corresponds to the version you're planning to use).

- When you get the file, put it on your client's desktop and go into OMV's WEB GUI (below).
- (In the right hand column) Under <SYSTEM>, click on <Plugins>. Once there, click on upload, highlighted below. Navigate to your client desktop, select the file you downloaded, click OK.
(The file uploads.)

Now go into <SYSTEM>, <PLUGINS>. Find and select the OMV-Extras plugin, and install it.
(**Note it may be already installed, after the file upload. I'm not sure. I'm running a "pre-installed" version on a Raspberry-PI.**)

The OMV-Extras plugin will now appear under <SYSTEM>, on the left. Click on it, and in the right window, <EDIT> and enable the <STABLE> and <TESTING> repo's.

At this point, a bunch of extra plugin's will show up under <PLUGINs>, in the right hand window. Find the Flashmemory plugin, shown below, and install it.

You'll need to activate SSH so you can get to the command line, using "Putty" (or some other SSH client). Activate SSH as shown below.

This is important.
Actually "READ" the "NOTES", start to finish, before activating the plugin (shown below). The manual edits are required, from the command line, before activating this plugin. While it's not intuitive, the NANO editor (noted below) will get the job done.
** Remember your login is root and the default password is openmediavault

_______________________________________________________________

(If I missed something or if you need clarification, let me know.)
_______________________________________________________________

What this is all about is excessive wear on the flash device, from constant read and write activity, as if it was a spinning hard disk. The FLASHmemory plugin reduces read / write activity, greatly extending the life of the flash drive.

With that stated, it's important to note that not all flash devices are equal. Quality devices like San-Disk and other major brands have "wear leveling" built into their on-board controllers. Cheap knock off's may not. Spend an extra dollar or two for a good brand name. (Note** a blazing fast device, like a class 10SD card, is not important as noted previously in this thread.)

Regardless, it's important to clone flash devices (I use Win32Diskimager), test the clone, and set your extra boot drive (or two) aside just in case. They're too inexpensive to not have 2 or 3.

Oh, BTW: I didn't use the Wiki instructions to install OMV
here-> OMV Wiki so I don't know of a root password change is recommended or not.

However:
If you're planning on leaving SSH active (I do), change your root password from openmediavault to something you can remember. The command is passwd root . Also, at some point, installing fail2ban is not a bad idea.

____________________________________________________

On your selection of OMV, I arrived at the same conclusion (OMV), using similar but slightly different criteria. (Installing the OMV-Extras plugin is a bit on the protracted side, but we'll set that one niggling issue aside.)

Looking at it from several viewpoints and in the bottom line, I'd argue that OMV is the easiest and most flexible NAS solution out there, for home and small business use. And while I'm not into that end of it anymore, arguably, it's a real contender for certain roles in enterprise operations.

On the NOOB thing, hey, I know what you're talking about. I'm a Linux NOOB myself.

But I think you'll find that, if you're willing to try to help yourself a bit, the folks that run this forum will do their part in pointing you in the right direction.

Regards
_______________________________________

(Oh and being a retiree, I duck out for a few days from time to time. I'll try to help when I'm home.)

geaves · 4. Mai 2017

Wow...thank you... you're hired...personal mentor..... all now working on usb, I've got 2 sandisk cruzers...have yet to clone the second thought I would leave that until all the drives are in place and set up....hopefully by Sunday I should be 'cooking on gas'

crashtest · 4. Mai 2017

Zitat von geaves

I've got 2 sandisk cruzers...have yet to clone the second. thought I would leave that until all the drives are in place and set up....hopefully by Sunday I should be 'cooking on gas'

Yeah, that makes sense. I usually clone before any version upgrades, so I can "punt" if needed, and then well after the upgrade (or after any configurations changes I make), when I'm sure I want to keep them.

Also, if you're using Win32diskimager (or something similar), I "read" my SD card to a file using a name with the version and date on it. Since the image file itself can be written to new flash devices, it's actually a 3rd backup.

Good backup keeps the "drama" in computing life to a minimum.

geaves · 5. Mai 2017

Looks as if I'll be 'cooking' earlier......got I mirror set up, samba share for swmbo for her files, second raid resyncing.....and apart from my W10 machine not wanting to connect to share until I enabled smb2/3 and disabled smb1 it's looking good for starters.

Not so painful after all just gotta fix my case fan.

crashtest · 5. Mai 2017

From the "el-cheap-o" point of view;

In replacing your case fan, if you want true "high performance" cooling:

Don't forget cardboard (for duct work - imagination is the limit), duct tape, and a plain ole house fan!

"That" would ventilate that fire breathing Xeon powered dragster nicely!
(With replacements available at Wal-Mart.)

geaves · 5. Mai 2017

Zitat von flmaxey

From the "el-cheap-o" point of view;

In replacing your case fan, if you want true "high performance" cooling:

Don't forget cardboard (for duct work - imagination is the limit), duct tape, and a plain ole house fan!

"That" would ventilate that fire breathing Xeon powered dragster nicely!
(With replacements available at Wal-Mart.)

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