The Class E Network

Zitat von geaves

You do realise we (yes that includes me) are now showing our age we look at a PC as a functional item, it does a job and provided it does that job then we're happy.

I still don't get it. I wouldn't want my workstation to look like crap but adding "bling" and "pimping it out" goes the other way, and turns it into a gaudy eye sore. Gold plating a hammer - what's the point? There's no accounting for taste.

Zitat von geaves

I agree, I started looking into folder to ram but never got very far, is it not in their software repository? For me, to back mine up it's going to have to wait til I've got this laptop rebuilt. Found this

I looks like they've taken active steps to reduce writes to SD-cards, so I'll blame it on the old generic "crappy" SD-card. (I'm going to give this a day or two and back it up.)

UEFI - I've not researched it in depth but the practical effects seem to being throwing a large number of unknowns into what used to be known. I understand the need to get past previous limitations, drive size and other but, in my unconsidered opinion, a backward compatible evolution would be preferred to filling in a blank slate. Bump the drive limit from 2TB to 200TB, etc., but not get carried away.

As it is now; there's just too much room for mischief for Developers and Hackers in UEFI (everyone needs limits ). I was waiting for this to happen (malware in UEFI) and it appears that it has. UEFI root kits,, wonderful...... A bit of extra memory and look what we can do....
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Have you ever ran a Virtualization platform? I'm trying to distill down a setup (in Proxmox) that will run OMV and allow for the considerable remaining hardware resources to be used elsewhere. It's actually fairly easy to do but I'm struggling with what to do on the storage back-end.

Part of my comfort on the server side is understanding the file system, file system utilities, etc. Since I don't have the extra hardware or drives for a cluster, there doesn't seem to be a practical way to backup a standalone VM server (or port it VM's to another server). With the backup note in mind, and with drives being expensive (compared to hardware), I'm reluctant to install a file system at the block level where I don't have at least a minimal understanding of how to work with it. (Which dovetails into what can be done to recover from a fault.)

I'm thinking of assigning OMV exclusive access to drives with known file systems, for I what I want it to do, and pooling junk drives for VM's. Use the KISS principle.

Any thoughts?

Zitat von flmaxey

Since I don't have the extra hardware or drives for a cluster, there doesn't seem to be a practical way to backup a standalone VM server (or port it VM's to another server). With the backup note in mind, and with drives being expensive (compared to hardware), I'm reluctant to install a file system at the block level where I don't have at least a minimal understanding of how to work with it. (Which dovetails into what can be done to recover from a fault.)

proxmox has a good backup feature that allows you to backup to any of your storage listed in the web interface. I backup to local drives and to nfs mounted storage. It can backup using snapshots or you can power off the VM.

Zitat von geaves

I read somewhere you mentioned having a backup of the 'content file'

It's not backing up the content file per-say. It's multiple copies. All you have to do, for your SNAPRAID setup, is check the box for a content file on more than one drive. (If you have multiple drives, at a minimum, I'd set a content file on the two largest drives.) Since a content file (at least one) is required for recovery, it would be a bummer if only one copy was set on one drive, and that drive failed. (See what I'm getting at?)

Zitat von geaves

Doesn't Promox work the same as V'Box? creates a virtual disk, I know with MS we backed up the VM which is the virtual disk, so the whole VM could be restored including personal data.

It does but it has way more features in other areas. When it comes to the storage back-end, this is what I'm getting at:

Virtualbox - on a Windows client:

[Physical Drive] -> NTFS -> VirtualBox abstract -> [VB virtual Block Device] -> EXT 4

If you look at the above, and there's a problem with EXT 4, is the problem really with EXT4? There's no way to know, for sure, if one doesn't know how to examine NTFS and, to a lesser degree, VB's abstract.

In a VM, really, the above is no big deal but when one of the VM's is an OMV server, having some familiarity with the storage back-end seems to be a good idea. One of the interesting options in Proxmox is the use of LVM (among many other possibilities) in the back-end.

[Physical Drive] |-> LVM Pool -> Proxmox abstract -> [Proxmox virtual Block Device] -> EXT 4
[Physical Drive] |
[Physical Drive] |

I'm not a big fan of LVM in that it has some of the characteristics of a RAID array. Well, to be honest, I'm not a big fan of adding complexity. When setting something like this up, I try to project the effects of a single drive failure and what it would take to recover.
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Take the following as an example (this is posted here).

(With the notable exception of /dev/sdb where a failure would mean two RAID5 arrays would be degraded:)

Unless I'm looking at it wrong: kill a physical drive and the result is a cascade failure. The LVM volume, residing at the top, dies. I just can't see the point in setting something like this up..?? 2 chances out of 3 would result in a dead volume.
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I must be overthinking this. With layered backup, I know there's nothing to fear, but I have a hard time doing something that seems to be destined for an epic failure, like the above.

Again, to serve OMV, I'm leaning toward passing physical drives through, and pooling a few drives for other less important VM guests. (Where it may be possible to rebuild VM's, almost instantly, from snapshot images.) I can see where a pair of modest sized SSDs is a good idea for a boot drive and backup.

Zitat von geaves

TBH to be honest, and I don't want to appear to be rude, but sometimes I think you 'over think' things instead of working on the KISS principle. Set it up how you want to set it up not on how you think it should be set up. The worst case scenario, go back to the drawing board.

Don't want to be rude,,, why I 'oughta... (Give you a thumbs down on that post! )
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Yeah, I tend to do this when delving into areas where my knowledge is thin. It's a habit from the old days,, attempting to "forecast" potential issues and streamline the end product, to avoid the need for intervention and, if possible, even the need for basic admin.

For these reasons, I do believe in the KISS principle but if one plays it safe all the time, learning new concepts suffers.
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Have you tried to build OMV5 yet?

I tried the latest scripts for installing it on Buster. As of a couple days ago, it seemed to be missing a key ingredient at the end, like installing OMV. That's easy enough apt-get install openmediavault but the two dependency problems (salt and php) are still there.

I have to admit that I'm worried about what might be a "BTRFS only" approach in OMV5. With issues in its' RAID1 AND RAID 5/6 implementations, BTRFS is simply not ready for prime time. And note these are the issues they're aware of. It says nothing of problems that are there, but have yet to be discovered.
Forcing BTRFS on the masses, before it's ready, almost feels "political". If BTRFS is the only option in OMV5, OMV4 may be my last version. This is why I'm sort of anxious to get a first look.

Zitat von geaves

this is what makes us different, you would read, me I would read how do I get started

I tend to dive in when there are a few question marks and fill in the blanks as I go, but there are times when "looking it up" makes sense. For example, I know how to stud up walls, set doors, window openings, etc. But, when I built the small barn, I didn't know how to build an asymmetrical gambrel roof. I looked up the math, (angles, lengths, etc.) set up a template and made my own trusses. (This is not something to be taken lightly, the span is 16', the length is 24,' and there's no center support. It's all open.) This is an example of something I've never done before and I didn't have someone with experience to help.

Building codes, technique, best practice, etc., are examples of where a bit of research is required.

And "Bam"! I got this:

Zitat von geaves

I would therefore agree with something you mentioned elsewhere that ZFS might be the a better option and my last foray into that was frustrating.

This is another example, I didn't find ZFS to be frustrating - just unknown. There's some complexity in it, but the topic can be understood with a bit of reading, a tutorial, etc. And my perceived lack of choices for something that will actually preserve my files (going way back) added a bit of motivation.
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Zitat von geaves

This thread I see you have suggested a reinstall, but it's this that's the problem -> Failed to execute command - Cannot Create Socket to localhost 2812 - Connection Refused. That error has been appearing on a number of threads all with different issues but with that common line, if you google the error and ignore the omv references it seems to relate to monit.

Well, "being related to monit" (maybe) doesn't fix it and while you might take the time to run down potential issues (research! ), the vast majority of users who come here, looking for a quick answer, won't. (For the same reasons, that they don't have an UPS or OS backup.)

When peep's start complaining about a misbehaving OS "after a power outage", minor corruption of some sort is almost certainly part of the issue. Since there's no knowing "what" or "how" something has been corrupted, the time and effort it takes to remotely direct a beginner user toward finding the problem is not worth it. The surest way to get them back on track, guaranteed, is a rebuild, along with using the opportunity to nudge them toward an UPS and OS backup.

I see TK and even ryecoaaron have chimed in on that thread. We'll see where that goes.
I found TK's mention of a "common problem", in an old build, to be interesting. In this case, all is working fine and then, after a power outage, a known problem suddenly surfaces? I was trying to understand the logic in that .

Given the feeling that I got from the user, and what little I know of his problem, I'd bet he does the rebuild. And while there would be no way to verify it, I'd post odds at 50/50 that he gets an UPS, with OS backup being a 1 in 10 chance.
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Zitat von geaves

'If' that happens for me there would two choices either stay with the V4 or go back to Ubuntu.

Debian9/OMV4 should be good for awhile, but I'm taking a look at Ubuntu Server. My needs are simple and should be easy to replicate.
I just looked up Debian9 EOL - they have it as Jan 2020. Plenty of time....

Zitat von flmaxey

And "Bam"! I got this

I need one of those

Zitat von ryecoaaron

I need one of those

Well, let's build another one!
It would have to be easier, the second time around, and go a lot faster with a second set of hands.
It was around $5000 or so in materials, bagged concrete and all.

My brother-in-law, a builder, eyeballed it and said; "You know, someone could live in here."
(He saw the provisions for front windows that are not yet installed. Maybe next year...)

And I have to put in a panel and run power to it. You know,, for "off-site" backup... The spouse unit has already approved.

Zitat von flmaxey

Well, let's build another one! It would have to be easier, the second time around, and go a lot faster with a second set of hands.
It was around $5000 or so in materials, bagged concrete and all.

Mine would cost quite a bit more since I would either need more land or do some serious build up for a spot flat enough and large enough Then I would have to insulate it, run gas for heat and electric, and a network cable You need to post the video walkthrough!

Zitat von geaves

A google search references monit. Re the UPS, unless you're living way out in the sticks in the UK you wouldn't need one, yes we had one in school but that's a different ball game.

That's amazing. Here, power hits can be an everyday thing but we usually get one at least once a week. (I'm aware of more of them than most would be. NUT is configured to shutdown the server after a few minutes, where the server notifies me of the event by E-mail.) I suspect that in the US and many locations overseas, power is not as stable as it is where you are. Actually, I know this for a fact.

This Intel server impressed me in that respect. It's not on an UPS and when a power hit shutdown my client, TV, and entertainment center, the Intel server didn't blink. I looked it up and found that its power supply(s) are designed to be very forgiving of over/under voltage conditions and short duration power hits. As time goes on, I'm getting a better understanding of why the server jock's were willing to pay premium prices for these things.

Zitat von geaves

I was trying to understand what TK was referencing with that as well, how can something that's been fixed resurface just because of of a power outage.

Yeah, crappers,, you sort of shut that thread down! I was wondering where TK would go with that and if, maybe, I'd get a chance to "comment".

Zitat von geaves

Seen votdev's Raid fix in github, not removing USB Raid option but gives a warning about using it, I wonder how many will take notice.

His idea would have nipped the problem in the bud, but it went back to something close to what was originally suggested. Taking USB off the RAID table would have been best, but a warning is in the middle and something is better than nothing.

Zitat von ryecoaaron

Mine would cost quite a bit more since I would either need more land or do some serious build up for a spot flat enough and large enough Then I would have to insulate it, run gas for heat and electric, and a network cable

You'd be surprised, it wouldn't have to be that much more. As always, it depends of the scope of the job.

Depending on how you wired it up (a soft copper gas run, 2-2-2-4 for 100 amps, and 62.5X125um with RG6, buried, in conduit) you'd add maybe another $1250 to 1750. (Maybe bump up to 1-1-1-4 depending on length.) An extra $800 or so for 4 windows, if you wanted them? Drywall and finished flooring would be extra but, even without finished surfaces, it would be the ultimate man cave...

To make land flat, the easiest way would an excavator. That wouldn't be cheap but excavators can be rented these days. Depending on the job and if you have a truck that can tow it, maybe $1000 - 2000 if you worked non-stop. (Tough, if you have a day job.) If the potential is there, what will kill the whole thing would be boulders. Heavy excavation would bust the schedule and the budget.
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I'm looking more toward storage in the attic and a shop in the bottom. (But a small fridge wouldn't hurt anything. )
With lean-to's on the sides and concrete pads or gravel, I'll have a place for vehicle / tractor maintenance that's out of the elements, and wheeled storage at other times.

Zitat von flmaxey

To make land flat, the easiest way would an excavator

Mine would need to be built up since my house is on the top of a small hill. But either way, I need to finish my basement first I will have to just enjoy the progress on your man cave