Beginners questions

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    • Beginners questions

      Hello,

      I installed successfully Debian 8.9 with OMV 3 as well as the Midnight Commander, TVHeadend and Emby on a NAS equipped with a 250 GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD and two 8 TB hard disks. I also managed two create a RAID-1 and created a EXT4-filesystem.

      But as an OMV as well as a Linux-Newbie I have got a question (convinced Windows-user and until now Synology-NAS-user *g*):

      Where are my files located? For example, if I create a folder, how can I determine if the folder will be created on the SSD or on the hard disk RAID ?
      Or if I want to copy files via SSH, how can I determine if the files will be copied to the SSD or the RAID ? Obviously I don't want to copy my audio and video files to the SSD, but the hard disks ....
      How do I address '/dev/md0' resp. using the label 'OMVdisc' ?

      In the menu "Access control - Shared folder" I created for test purposes a folder called "testfuromv". But where the hell is it located, how can I find it within a shell e.g. ?

      Another question: The 'home' directory of each user normally consists of a subfolder within ./home/. Obviously this at the moment is located on the SSD. Is there a possibility to link the content of the directories to directories located on the hard disk ? So, for example "./home/PeterMiller/" links to a directory located on the hard disk?
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    • malvinas2 wrote:

      In the menu "Access control - Shared folder" I created for test purposes a folder called "testfuromv". But where the hell is it located, how can I find it within a shell e.g. ?
      In the last OMV 3 version all disk are mounted automaticaly in /srv. Use midnight commander to look in there. There you should find your ssd and probably also the raid volume. I don't have a raid voulme can tell for shore if you will find the raid volume ore the individual disks.

      Similar thread you can read here:
      Issue adding a new HDD

      Hope I could help
    • malvinas2 wrote:

      Where are my files located?
      Hallo, bei den Dateisystemen kann man zusätzliche Spalten einblenden (Geht auch in anderen Menüs). Mit dem Mauszeiger auf den Spaltennamen gehen, dann erscheint der DropDown-Pfeil. Über "Colums" bzw. das Pendant in Deutsch, kannst du den Mointpoint hinzufügen. Dann sieht man sofort, wo die Laufwerke eingehängt werden.

      OMV 3.0.90 (Gray style)
      ASRock Rack C2550D4I - 16GB ECC - 6x WD RED 3TB (ZFS 2x3 Striped RaidZ1)- Fractal Design Node 304
    • Thanks for all the answers (Ich bleib mal vorsichtshalber bei Englisch :) )

      'mount' shows me:

      /dev/md0 on /srv/dev-disk-by-id-md-name-OMV-OMVRaid type ext4

      and content of /etc/fstab is:

      # >>> [openmediavault]
      /dev/disk/by-id/md-name-OMV:OMVRaid /srv/dev-disk-by-id-md-name-OMV-OMVRaid ext4 defaults,nofail,user_xattr,noexec,usrjquota=aquota.user,grpjquota=aquota.group,jqfmt=vfsv0,acl 0 2
      # <<< [openmediavault]


      And yes, 'ls -l' shows me for example the content of /srv/dev-disk-by-id-md-name-OMV-OMVRaid', whereas 'ls -l /dev/md0' doesn't work.

      In this case I don't understand why the hard disks are mounted on such a long path, labelled with something like /srv/dev-disk-by-id-md-name-OMV-OMVRaid.
      That means, every time I want to copy something to the hard disk I have to type in this long term ???? :cursing: =O ;( :S ?(
    • labels are used to keep device naming persistent. It woudn't be very nice if you made a hardware change and suddenly /dev/sda1 became /dev/sb1 would it? ;)
      :cursing: Intel NUC Kit DE3815TYKHE My NAS build / ARK
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      OMV 3.x | OMV-Extras | Flash Memory | Pi-hole

      RPi/3 №1: LibreElec 8.xRPi/3 №2: SickRage, PiVPN, noip2
    • malvinas2 wrote:


      That means, every time I want to copy something to the hard disk I have to type in this long term ???? :cursing: =O ;( :S ?(
      You can create for example a directory in /media, lets say /media/Data and mount your drive with that long path there.
      Edit the file rc.local in /etc add add something like this:

      mount -o bind /srv/dev-disk-by-id-md-name-OMV-OMVRaid /media/Data

      You have to add this line in rc.local before the line 'exit 0'. Now each time the system boots it will automaticaly mount the drive to /media/Data.
      So now when you copy something you will have to type only /media/Data
    • My $0.02 as an OMV 3.x/Debian beginner.

      Can someone please explain "User home directory" (UHD) or direct me (us) to good, general documentation about the subject? I see this term in various places in the GUI, but I'm uncertain what it means.

      For example, Access Rights Management" > User > Settings wants a location for the UHDs, but the drop-down menu only shows "None" and the names of the two shares I've set up ("Media" and "Zotero_Library"). These are both special-purpose, and neither is an appropriate place for user home directories. So does "None" actually mean no UHDs will be created -- thereby negating the "Enable" switch, or does it mean they're created in some unspecified default location, or does this imply a need for a third share (e.g., "Users") where users will have their own home directories?

      To continue, wherever one sets up the UHDs, is this the same location for home directories as one would get if one logs into *nix and a shell (i.e., "~")? E.g., on MacOS computers home directories are: /Users/<user name>, but Debian documentation implies: /home/<user name>. In either case, is there a default drive when using OMV? Both MacOS and Debian are primarily designed to be computer OS's, so they are likely to assume a large "system" drive is the location of both the OS and the user part of the file system. But OMV wants to keep the system drive separate from user data, and using a small USB drive or SSD is common for this purpose. So one would assume that /home is not on the system drive. If not, then where is it by either default or convention? If it is, then isn't this silly because OMV doesn't want user data on the system drive?

      Following this line of thinking, is there a way to explicitly locate /home on a different file system than the one where the OS resides? The Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS), to which Debian subscribes, implies that this is common. But the OMV ISO installs Debian before installing OMV, so it would seem that by the time a sysadmin accesses the OMV GUI the location has been decided. But where? Also, I think most people would like consistency, so that their home directory is the same no matter how they access it (CLI, OMV GUI, connecting device's file app, etc.). Is this actually the case?

      But whatever the story is about user home directories, the picture becomes even more muddy as one uses other parts of the OMV system. For example, Services > SMB/CIFS also has an "Enable user home directories," but this one does not have a text box or drop-down menu to choose a location. What does this mean? Does it mean the home directory is unique for SMB access and located in some unspecified location? Does it mean the SMB/CIFS subsystem uses the settings established in Access Rights Management > User? Does it mean /home/<user name>?

      There are lots more questions like these, but after searching much of yesterday and this morning for a clear discussion of the general topic, I'm giving up on finding one. Instead, I'm hoping someone here can either direct me (and others) to such a discussion or give a clear summary here. Pleeeze. ?(

      P.S. The FHS documentation is an excellent example of documenting filesystem conventions. Something similar for OMV -- addressing things that are unique to OMV and the specifics of how OMV handles the more general *nix conventions -- would be really helpful.
    • I am new to OMV and thus add to your speculation by looking at my system drive:
      under /home I find the directory for the lonesome user. Just were it belongs in Debian.

      BUT: in a private use setting I expect the user homes to reside on the client machines
      On a NAS I can live with users without home-dirs.
      On every UNIX system you have users e.g. httpd that have no home-dir.

      In a business setting it might be very useful to have home-dirs on the NAS. But then I would set them up on the main storage (think of the large po*n files ...) and map them in the log on process.

      In /etc/passwd you see the situation according to your OMV-setup
    • DHGE wrote:

      BUT: in a private use setting I expect the user homes to reside on the client machines
      On a NAS I can live with users without home-dirs.
      Not sure I agree with your assumption. For example, my wife uses a cheepo Windoze PC with only 32 GB of mass storage. She's got chronic space issues, and one use for a NAS could be giving her more storage for her documents. (Better than SD cards or USB drives, which frequently get lost, forgotten, or broken.) If so, she would have something resembling a home directory on the NAS drive.

      Technically this might not be a true home directory in the sense that she can log into the PC without being connected to the network. Let's call her "true" home directory under Windows 10: C:\Users\<username>. But because of the space limitation, everything is configured to store on the NAS, and user files there are organized under D:\Users\<username>. Since a user logging in on the PC doesn't start with this directory, it's not really a home directory from the vantage point of the PC. But if a PC user logs into the NAS machine as a Unix user, wouldn't one hope /home/username and D:\Users\<username> point to the same place in the file system?

      In fact, IIRC, early Sun Microsystem computers did use an architecture with a single heavy-duty server connected to many lightweight workstations. I believe all files, including home directories, resided on the server.

      Your comment about /home on the system drive raises a good point: are OMV "users" also Debian "users"? If there's only one "lonesome" user, the answer is "no." Presumably there would be 2 users in /etc/passwd: root and OMD's admin, but after that all other users could be known only to OMV and therefore are not in /etc/passwd.

      But again, why restrict the NAS device to being just a NAS? In the 1970s and 1980s I certainly used mult-user Unix systems. Many of them doubled as DNS, mail servers, etc., but personally, I used these machines mainly for programming and typesetting (with *roff), applications that require user-specific storage. These were pre-HTML machines, so no http whatsoever. We used dumb terminals, and we liked it!.

      Distinguishing between "private" and "business" settings reminds me of the 1960s distinctions between "scientific" and "business" computers before IBM's System 360 computers came along and of the distinction between "scientific" (FORTRAN) and "business" (COBOL) programming languages before more flexible and capable languages (PL/I -> C) came along. At any point in time technological limitations may require distinguishing between different application realms, but Unix (and Novell) proved it's always a bad idea to cement these differences in fundamental architectures tied to specific applications.

      But enough philosophy. My question is just looking for something broader. I want an overview, explaining from 30,000 ft up, how OMV organizes user-specific storage areas and then, on the ground, explaining exactly what "user home directory" means in each part of OMV, how it's used, and how it relates to storage locations on the Unix host system.

      IMHO, people really shouldn't have to go around hacking into Unix system configuration files to try and guess how OMV interacts with the underlying OS or what "User home directory" really means in varied contexts in OMD. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised in a substantial majority of new OMV users never even heard of /etc/passwd, let alone have ever looked inside one. And if they hadn't, they might guess that /etc/passwd has something to do with usernames and passwords, but why would they even think it has information about home directories?

      IIRC, Unix files actually consist of linked lists of inodes. So technically it may be possible to figure out all this stuff by experimenting with different configurations and reverse engineering what's actually going on by examining the inode lists. But just because this is possible doesn't mean there shouldn't be an easier way: one that explains in plain English (or whatever) what home directories are and how they're used on OMV systems.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Swampy: Add further argument for more general guidance on user home directories. ().

    • Swampy wrote:

      are OMV "users" also Debian "users"? If there's only one "lonesome" user, the answer is "no." Presumably there would be 2 users in /etc/passwd: root and OMD's admin, but after that all other users could be known only to OMV and therefore are not in /etc/passwd.
      All users created in the omv web interface have an entry in /etc/passwd. OMV's web interface shows all users with an ID over 1000 (non-system users). So, even if you create a user from the command line (with an ID 1000+), it will also show up in the omv web interface.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github.com/OpenMediaVault-Plugin-Developers

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    • Thanks, rye. This is very helpful.

      Now what about home directories? Here are some of my questions:
      1. Are OMV home directories also Debian home directories?
      2. When a user is added, by default does Debian create a home directory for the user?
      3. Can one configure the system so that /home does not reside on the system drive? How?
      4. Does OMV admin have to create a share and then locate OMV user home directories on the share before OMV users can have home directories?
      5. When other component of OMV mention home directories, as in the example of SMB described above, are these the same as OMV's user home directories or are they home directories solely for the purpose of the component? If the latter, where are they located and how does one control their location?
      6. Where is this stuff documented?
    • 1. yes. I don't know what a "Debian home directory" is but when home directories are enabled in omv, a home directory is created in the shared folder you select when a user is created.

      2. Debian doesn't create a user. You do and it depends on the flags you use with useradd or adduser.

      3. No. OMV will never use /home and user directories will never be on the system drive. If you create users manually, you can still put them in /home and they will work fine (I do it on my systems).

      4. You have to create share and enable home directories but creating a user does everything else.

      5. Other components of OMV can't mention the home directories. They can only reference the shared folder used. For samba user home shares, it uses the home directory in /etc/passwd not anything in OMV whatsoever.

      6. I have no idea because all of it is standard Linux users other you specify a different root home directory ie /srv/disk_by_label/home instead /home (which is possible to do on any Linux).

      Spend a few minutes and try it. You will see what it does. OMV is frontend for Linux commands not some magical program that does things in non-standard ways.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github.com/OpenMediaVault-Plugin-Developers

      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • @Swampy

      you can start with the link I gave in post #4 in this thread - a gentle introduction

      for the heavy stuff:
      debian-handbook.info/
      debian.org/doc/debian-policy/index.html
      debian-administration.org/

      Regarding /home I just said what I think about personal use.
      I know the SUN history, worked in banking and insurance, and in startups were we did things different and some guys were also adamant to learn some lessons (again for me ...) themselves.

      @ryecoaaron
      I do not concur wholly with your point 3:
      On my system drive there are user dirs (starts with lonesome 'pi') under /home. They won't be filled unless the users actually do some work on the NAS which would be an odd use case IMO.
      This comes from starting with Raspbian and then installing OMV.

      On my just freshly install amd64 I concur:
      Could not chdir to home directory /home/newuser: No such file or directory

      although
      newuser:x:1000:100::/home/newuser:/bin/dash

      The post was edited 2 times, last by DHGE: OMV_raspi_2_3 and amd64 might differ ().

    • Thanks R & D. This is very helpful. I'll comment on general points later, but right now I still have one question.

      Now that I understand Rye's #4, to hold user data I'm going to add a share to my server, with users' home directories located on the share. I'm inclined to call the share "Users," but if OMV already has its own naming conventions, I'll use them instead.

      So, Debian conforms to FHS file-naming conventions, but beyond these does OMV have its own conventions for shares and/or other things?
    • DHGE wrote:

      I do not concur wholly with your point 3:
      On my system drive there are user dirs (starts with lonesome 'pi') under /home. They won't be filled unless the users actually do some work on the NAS which would be an odd use case IMO.
      This comes from starting with Raspbian and then installing OMV.
      That is exactly what point 3 says: OMV will never create a user that uses /home or a directory on the system drive. If home directories aren't enabled, the OMV-created user will point to /home (default for useradd) but the directory won't be created meaning you can't fill it;.

      If you manually create the user (which I do), then it can use /home. Users created before OMV is installed can also use home. You can even change an omv created user to use /home but you have to do it from the command line.

      Swampy wrote:

      So, Debian conforms to FHS file-naming conventions, but beyond these does OMV have its own conventions for shares and/or other things?

      Swampy wrote:

      I'm inclined to call the share "Users," but if OMV already has its own naming conventions, I'll use them instead.
      You can call it whatever you want. To OMV, it is just another folder.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
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    • Thanks to your help, I finally got the SMB protocol working.

      Looking at the results though, it appears that "Enable user home directories" in the SMB/CIFS section DOES NOT refer to the directories configured as user home directories in the Access Rights Management section. I say this because I configured the "home directories" in the Access Rights Management section to put these directories on the "Users" share, but using SMB to access the NAS shows this location AND a /home location, which appears to be /home on the system drive.

      From this I infer that enabling user home directories in the SMB/CIFS section means users accessing the NAS via SMB will have access to /home on the system drive, and that this is entirely independent of whether or not user home directories are enabled in the Access Rights Management section.

      Can someone confirm this?