Solved? OMV and software raid 5

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    • Hi again!
      Well, the fact no one has responded never ceases to amase me....
      Doesn't matter what forum you are on...seems to be an unwritten rule...."Ask something stupid" (what members class as stupid), "Ask something without enough information" (not enough information to get a response),or didn't look at the available information available before posting....
      Well, I guess I must fall in one of those categories...no matter...

      I have always been of the opinion (and have written about it on several forums) no question however you write it... is stupid....just the plain fact that members have had such threads started so many times ....they choose not to reply instead of just writing....."need more info" etc

      ignoring a thread is not helpful, and not why most of the members are here....just don't understand why it still exists....the so called silent treatment?

      He will get the picture and ask a better question or offer more information.....

      Now I am likely to get a flood of different people writing different reasons for why no one has responded and I have heard them all especially the one about me being ungrateful for the help I have had...NOT TRUE...always grateful!!....just think it is better to say politely..."we need mor info"

      Because I will solve this with or without the silent treatment I just wanted to remind members why they are here ....and why they choose to be here....not forgetting that everyone has asked so called "stupid questions"....I just hope they were asked "we need more info"....

      I will fix the raid by tests and more tests....no problem....

      Perhaps someone could tell me how I can replace remove drives from the omv config (where ever it is) so that I can add new ones without being reminded that the others are missing...

      Thank you!

      bookie56
    • bookie56 wrote:

      I was wondering about adding drives to a system already running OMV and creating a raid array via the web interface?..Are there any good "How To's" on that?
      I don't think there are any how tos but you should just do the following (as long as you don't want to convert drives with data currently on them to drives in the array):
      shut down the system.
      add the drives
      start the system
      create the array
      create the filesystem
      mount the filesystem
      create shared folders

      bookie56 wrote:

      If i move an existing raid array to a computer that is already running OMV....is there any "How To's" on that as well?
      No but just do the following:
      shut down the system
      add the drives
      start the system
      OMV should detect the array
      mount the filesystem.
      create shared folders.
      You may have to reset permissions since user ids may not match on different systems.

      bookie56 wrote:

      Well, the fact no one has responded never ceases to amase me....
      I'm not going to say much about this other than personally, I avoid raid threads (if I can but this is probably bad because it seems I respond the most to raid threads) nowadays. People have too many problems with it, it takes too much of my time, and the results are typically not good.

      On a serious note (since I have seen more people get mad about lack of response lately), how long should a response take? I seen people get mad about no response after 4 hours and others just bump the thread after weeks. I also do more responding on the weekends. So, threads started during the week may have longer response times. And they get really long if I am too busy during the weekend.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github.com/OpenMediaVault-Plugin-Developers

      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • Hi ryecoaaron :)
      I appreciate you not reading me the riot act :rolleyes:

      I also appreciate your reply!!

      I have had software raid 5 on my main server for some years now without any hitches...even if I have done a complete reinstall...no problems...I will admit to not being really good at raid scenarios but do underastand how it works...

      I was looking at raid 10 but don't really need it....don't rely on raid as a back up....just want a little more safety for the files that can save me a lot of work...

      I always keep backups so raid 5 is OK....

      I have not had the need to add extra drives to a raid before and this time will be the same...I am just moving the older drives and setting up new ones in raid...also read that resyncing drives does tend to stress them more than just cleaning them and copy and pasting to new ones but I have no real experience in what is best for the drives...

      I did ask about what happens when I turn off OMV and remove drives without removing them from the system first....have seen some thread about removing stuff from the config file so that the system doesn't look for the drives missing everytime it starts...but I do appreciate you trying to sift through my ranting and raving...think I have become less patient with age....sorry for my rant!!

      Still not 100% comfortable with the web interface removing drives from the system without erasing them.... :cursing:

      Thanks again!

      bookie56
    • I guess going to remove drives from the current system when putting the raid drives in there. That is definitely a different task. You would have to do something like:

      remove sharedfolders (on drives to remove) from all services.
      delete sharedfolders
      unmount filesystem

      After that you should be fine to remove it with erasing any data on the drive.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github.com/OpenMediaVault-Plugin-Developers

      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • weebnuts wrote:

      Hardware Raid5 is much better
      'Better'? No. It's just a different attempt to loose all your data if you don't care about backup (which a lot of OMV users do for reasons unknown to me).

      BTW: RAID5 was suitable for some use cases back in last century. Today it's used mostly for psychological reasons (providing a good feeling since 'something done for $redundancy' without spending much thoughts on anything)
      'OMV problems' with XU4 and Cloudshell 2? Nope, read this first. 'OMV problems' with Cloudshell 1? Nope, just Ohm's law or queue size.
    • Hi guys :)
      Software raid 5 has redundancy so what is the problem?
      A good hardware raid is just expensive...
      So, now you have decided to respond to my thread....please tell me what you recommend and why....
      I have Debian 8 and don't intend to move to BSD...yes I know I can install ZFS but please tell me where I can find good information or as ryecoaaron says raid questions just cause problems....
      I am prepared to listen if someone gives me some good information on why and how.....

      Thanks...

      bookie56

      The post was edited 1 time, last by bookie56 ().

    • bookie56 wrote:

      A good hardware raid is
      ...called 'a single point of failure' -- you need at least two of these RAID controllers to be safe, you need to test all scenarios that are possible (you don't know what that is if you're not storage professional with a few years of experience). Nobody does this since the only reason why most people think about RAID is a good feeling since 'something with redudancy'.

      bookie56 wrote:

      please tell me what you recommend and why....

      Only recommendation: think about the meaning of
      1. redundancy (wasted resources to be able to recover from $something)
      2. availability (does a hardware failure means disruption of service?)
      3. data integrity (is the data I can read from my storage the data I've written to?)
      4. data safety (is the data protected from damage/deletion?)


      RAID(5) implements 1 to provide 2 and more or less by accident also somehow 3 while it totally fails with 4. And now let's have a look what most RAID 'fans' only think about when they start to put their data at risk (ignoring backup and relying on 'something with redundancy' instead)
      'OMV problems' with XU4 and Cloudshell 2? Nope, read this first. 'OMV problems' with Cloudshell 1? Nope, just Ohm's law or queue size.
    • OK I see that more and more don't like software raid 5....by the same token most threads of the last couple of years say that hardware raid isn't a necessay way to go....and there are so many that rave about mdadm....

      If someone is going to recommend me something - then I would like all the information including how to set up this in a linux situation....

      As I have pointed out I have backups...and am not one of "THOSE" who rely on raid for a backup of my files...

      I have enough to do as regarding running my business as it is and cannot devote time and energy to searching for hours for the right solution....

      I have come to the stage where I am fed up with reading hundreds of threads pointing out why we shouldn't be doing that and why we should be doing that....but almost none of them will actually go to the trouble of actually giving a simple "how to set up this/that scenario"...

      I never hold anyone accountable for my actions....if someone with a lot of experience in raid scenarios has the time to tell be where they are going wrong - then I think they should try and put them right....

      We all can't be great at everything...hence the need to go on forums and find those that are good at different areas and lean on their expertise to get going in the right direction...

      I am going to try and implement a raid scenario from someone who has experience over several years and who is willing to help those asking that, like me, don't have the experience or knowledge in this area....

      Setting up a raid scenario even in a small business....in my case "one man band" takes me away from concentrating on my customers...

      If I am using a scenario -where I know I can help others - then I would share that information willingly and not just point out what is right and wrong...

      I am not aiming this post at anyone in particular....if the shoe fits....time to actually help those that don't know....

      I have almost no knowledge of raid but want a situation where my harddrives are pooled together and work as one - but give me a safety margin if one fails....

      An example of why I would like that:

      Saving customer files in alphabetical order is a pain in the **** if you are just saving on individual drives...and you end up wiht the wrong letters on the wrong drive....pooling gives you the oportunity to just add the files to one drive even if you actually have ten....


      So, my question is:

      Is there anyone on this forum that knows about all raid situations, pooling of drives in different situations for small files and large files......AND is not only willing to point out I am doing wrong - BUT is actually willing to help me....instead of just blowing their own trumpet....

      If someone thinks I should be banned for my comment - then fine, do that because I have spent hours of my hard earned time actually giving information on "How to do something" without worring about some one taking offense or because their information didn't actually help...


      I appreciate the real workers here that really have joined the forum to help others...been there...done it....got the t-shirt....I now don't have the luxury of spending my spare time on forums like I did in the past....BUT I am always grateful to those that have the time to help....

      bookie56
    • ZFS on OMV is really easy to setup. You have to install OMV-extras and then install the ZFS plugin. Add a pool in the ZFS menu and then create your Filesystems that you want and then shared folders under that.

      Search is your friend
      [HOWTO] Instal ZFS-Plugin & use ZFS on OMV

      also a German video


      the great thing about ZFS is snapshots. So periodically create them in case you get a virus or delete something by accident you can go back to that point in time, or mount it temporarily to get the file you need. Lots of info on that by searching for it.
    • ZFS is free and has all the options of very expensive hardware SANs. OMV does a great job of giving you a good GUI, especially with the zfs plug-in. Also, what's cool about zfs is you can install freenas or another operating system that is zfs compatible and it will see your data without much trouble.

      Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
    • I can say that I have very good luck with software raid, hardware raid, pooling filesystems (unionfilesystems/mergerfs), zfs, btrfs, etc. But I still keep going back to just keeping it simple (important engineering principal). If a hard drive dies, you don't want to have to worry about losing data especially on other drives. Whether that means I restore from backup or rely on redundancy is the question. If you can handle the down time required to recover the files on that drive from backup or switch to a backup server, why use any raid redundancy solution? I admit not all situations work well with this system but most home users/small businesses can. There are lots of good solutions but if your skills or time aren't good enough to recover from a raid failure (whether it is software, hardware, etc), then I think it is bad to use a technology you can't support.
      omv 4.0.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.13 backports kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.0
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github.com/OpenMediaVault-Plugin-Developers

      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!