Pinned Which energy efficient ARM platform to choose?

    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      Not too expensive?

      Don't think so (since customs/VAT seem to be already included). If you fear 512MB would be too low and get NanoPi's at a local shop maybe choosing one of the larger models to be combined with a JMS578 equipped USB enclosure is a better idea?

      RPi 3 B+ is a pretty bad choice due to USB contention issues, Gigabit Ethernet problems (you need a switch with flow-control active otherwise performance totally sucks) and with a recent 'firmware' upgrade they also slowed down all RPi 3 B+ out there to masquerade a QC problem they had on a very small fraction of boards from the first batch (other vendors refund, those arrogant RPi folks think it's better to slow down the devices of all their users out there without even mentioning this anywhere, it needed public complaints to get this behaviour documented somewhere).

      Still they do not fix their documentation and in case someone mentions this posts get deleted and the poster banned. Everything as usual:

      raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=219662 -- not there any more since they censored again. Archived here: archive.fo/UW2wq
    • tkaiser wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      Not too expensive?
      Don't think so (since customs/VAT seem to be already included). If you fear 512MB would be too low and get NanoPi's at a local shop maybe choosing one of the larger models to be combined with a JMS578 equipped USB enclosure is a better idea?

      RPi 3 B+ is a pretty bad choice due to USB contention issues, Gigabit Ethernet problems (you need a switch with flow-control active otherwise performance totally sucks) and with a recent 'firmware' upgrade they also slowed down all RPi 3 B+ out there to masquerade a QC problem they had on a very small fraction of boards from the first batch (other vendors refund, those arrogant RPi folks think it's better to slow down the devices of all their users out there without even mentioning this anywhere, it needed public complaints to get this behaviour documented somewhere).

      Still they do not fix their documentation and in case someone mentions this posts get deleted and the poster banned. Everything as usual:

      raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=219662 -- not there any more since they censored again. Archived here: archive.fo/UW2wq

      Already with VAT and customs and of course with % for the store.


      I was thinking about sbc and hdd over a usb just as I currently have. Only I had fears if there would be any improvement in performance. Of course, I have to buy something that has JMS578. My current has JM20329.


      The problem is that if I limit myself to buying locally without ordering from Asia, I do not have too much choice.
      Mainly NanoPI and a few BananaPI from the cheap ones. Odroid's and Pine64, but that's another price range. I wanted to focus on those sbc which are officially supported by OMV to avoid future problems.


      Maybe you have some new SBC which you can recommend which are supported by OMV?
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      I wanted to focus on those sbc which are officially supported by OMV to avoid future problems

      None of those boards is 'officially' supported and the most important stuff happens at lower layers (Armbian) anyway. It's just that we created OMV images in an automated fashion for some popular boards so users can save the hassles and time to install OMV in a second step (since this is rather time consuming with slow SD cards).

      But even if there is no image for a specific board at the download page it's as easy as this: OMV4 on ARM boards (kind of a how-to)

      Wrt new SBC: None of those I currently play with are cheap (all RK3399 or Marvell based)
    • tkaiser wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      I wanted to focus on those sbc which are officially supported by OMV to avoid future problems
      None of those boards is 'officially' supported and the most important stuff happens at lower layers (Armbian) anyway. It's just that we created OMV images in an automated fashion for some popular boards so users can save the hassles and time to install OMV in a second step (since this is rather time consuming with slow SD cards).

      But even if there is no image for a specific board at the download page it's as easy as this: OMV4 on ARM boards (kind of a how-to)

      Wrt new SBC: None of those I currently play with are cheap (all RK3399 or Marvell based)

      After calculating everything, it will probably be better to invest in HC1 or think about cheap sbc and prepare for lower efficiency / functionality.

      And what do you think about Odroid HC1 or something else at this price?


      RK3399, you say, nice. This is quite a "luxury" area when it comes to price. In case we talk about ordinary Joe at home. :)
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      RK3399, you say, nice. This is quite a "luxury" area when it comes to price. In case we talk about ordinary Joe at home.
      A rockpro 64 with 2gb of ram is only $60.
      omv 4.1.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      RK3399, you say, nice. This is quite a "luxury" area when it comes to price. In case we talk about ordinary Joe at home.
      A rockpro 64 with 2gb of ram is only $60.

      It seemed to me that it costs more. Well...


      It probably depends on who uses sbc and what it considers cheap and what is expensive.
      For example, buying locally I have to pay $65 for PineA64+ 2GB where the price on their site is just $29.


      ROCKPro64 2GB is $59.99 and now I have to add vat/customs and shipping. Because I do not have it locally.
      And we are talking here all the time just about the naked sbc. The average Joe in the house must count the rest of the things when he builds NAS.

      The point of view depends on the point of standing. For someone, something is cheap and expensive for someone else. :)
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      ROCKPro64 2GB is $59.99 and now I have to add vat/customs and shipping. Because I do not have it locally.
      And we are talking here all the time just about the naked sbc. The average Joe in the house must count the rest of the things when he builds NAS.

      The point of view depends on the point of standing. For someone, something is cheap and expensive for someone else.

      I figured since you were contemplating an odroid hc-1 at $50, that the rockpro64 at $60 was in the same price range. I guess I didn't think $10 was a lot. When it comes to a NAS, saving every cent you can will probably come back to haunt you.
      omv 4.1.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      what do you think about Odroid HC1 or something else at this price?

      Nice device. If you order from Korea you need to keep in mind that Hardkernel declares real values (unlike some of those sending from China. They often declare value below 20 bucks so at least in EU you'll neither pay customs nor taxes).
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      ROCKPro64 2GB is $59.99 and now I have to add vat/customs and shipping. Because I do not have it locally.
      And we are talking here all the time just about the naked sbc. The average Joe in the house must count the rest of the things when he builds NAS.

      The point of view depends on the point of standing. For someone, something is cheap and expensive for someone else.
      I figured since you were contemplating an odroid hc-1 at $50, that the rockpro64 at $60 was in the same price range. I guess I didn't think $10 was a lot. When it comes to a NAS, saving every cent you can will probably come back to haunt you.

      So ROCKPro64 instead of Odroid-HC1?
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      So ROCKPro64 instead of Odroid-HC1?
      While I really like the chassis on an HC1, if you can afford a rockpro64, I would say get one.
      omv 4.1.11 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      So ROCKPro64 instead of Odroid-HC1?
      While I really like the chassis on an HC1, if you can afford a rockpro64, I would say get one.
      RP64 is "Out of stock". Either I have to wait or go with HC1 ...
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      While I really like the chassis on an HC1, if you can afford a rockpro64, I would say get one
      Well, if it's about costs of the whole solution then you need either to add an USB enclosure or Pine's nice SATA cable or their SATA card + NAS enclosure. And if it's just about a single disk NAS thingy then HC1 and RockPro64 will perform absolutely identical since HDD and Gigabit Ethernet will limit performance.
    • tkaiser wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      what do you think about Odroid HC1 or something else at this price?
      Nice device. If you order from Korea you need to keep in mind that Hardkernel declares real values (unlike some of those sending from China. They often declare value below 20 bucks so at least in EU you'll neither pay customs nor taxes).
      And what about the 32bit CPU in 2018-20xx will not be a problem? Less and less software for 32bit.
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • Mr.Grape wrote:

      And what about the 32bit CPU in 2018-20xx will not be a problem? Less and less software for 32bit
      Nope.

      32-bit vs. 64-bit on ARM is something entirely different compared to the x86 world. With the 'NAS use case' in mind there's only one advantage wrt 64-bit CPUs: AES crypto stuff if the SoC in question supports 'ARMv8 Crypto Extensions' (almost all do except Raspberry Pi)

      Some more information here: github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench/blob/master/Results.md

      But for the NAS use case this is not important. The bottlenecks are I/O and Gigabit Ethernet and it really doesn't matter whether the CPU is super fast or not or 32-bit or 64-bit. Debian will support armhf (32-bit) architecture for a long time from now on.

      I'm even promoting using armhf userland on 64-bit CPUs since needing less physical memory.
    • tkaiser wrote:

      Mr.Grape wrote:

      And what about the 32bit CPU in 2018-20xx will not be a problem? Less and less software for 32bit
      Nope.
      32-bit vs. 64-bit on ARM is something entirely different compared to the x86 world. With the 'NAS use case' in mind there's only one advantage wrt 64-bit CPUs: AES crypto stuff if the SoC in question supports 'ARMv8 Crypto Extensions' (almost all do except Raspberry Pi)

      Some more information here: github.com/ThomasKaiser/sbc-bench/blob/master/Results.md

      But for the NAS use case this is not important. The bottlenecks are I/O and Gigabit Ethernet and it really doesn't matter whether the CPU is super fast or not or 32-bit or 64-bit. Debian will support armhf (32-bit) architecture for a long time from now on.

      I'm even promoting using armhf userland on 64-bit CPUs since needing less physical memory.

      You improved my mood. Let 32 bit be supported as long as possible.

      I ordered Odroid HC1 because they did not have Rock locally. May this decision not come back to haunt me and kick my ass. ;)
      I'm not an expert. I'm just a tourist here.

      - ODROID-HC1 (Samsung Exynos5422, 2GB LPDDR3 RAM, Gigabit Ethernet)
      - Sandisk Ultra 16GB A1 "SDSQUAR-016G-GN6" (btrfs)
      - Samsung SpinPoint M8 1TB (ext4)
      - OMV 4.1.11 / ARMBIAN 5.60 + Kernel 4.14.69
    • I'm planing to setup a quiet, power-efficient NAS and Plex Media Server combination for my home. I've narrowed my choices down to a Odroid HC1 and a RockPro64 (+ the available NAS case).

      Any suggestions which route would give me more performance in case I'd need to transcode a video stream in Plex? As a NAS both should offer enough power, right?
    • TOMillr wrote:

      As a NAS both should offer enough power, right?
      For the NAS use case they're both way too powerful ;) Seriously: You get same NAS performance and the bottleneck will always be the HDD used -- something to keep in mind when using 2.5" HDD that are not entirely empty. HDDs use ZBR and once they fill up transfer speeds will slow down below the Gigabit Ethernet network bottleneck)

      If it's about transcoding usually ARM SoCs are too slow to let this happen on the CPU cores. But they all contain a video engine that could serve as a hardware accelerator once drivers are ready and the application that should make use of supports this (read as: choose an Intel box and use QuickSync, to my knowledge you still won't have fun with any ARM solution since while the video engines can do this stuff driver and userspace support is lacking in Linux. No problem in Android of course)
    • tkaiser, could you give an input about a wireless energy efficient storage platform to choose? Like in your post with around 1W (or better) consumption. I've been playing with a ZSUN Wifi card reader running OpenWRT and it's performance is less than desired. Thinking of tuning it to make a storage comparable to TP-link MR-3020 abilities (they share the same platform, the popular AR9331 SoC) but maybe it's a waste of time and there are platforms with same or better energy needs and times better performance (FTP/SMB over Wi-Fi). Main purpose is a battery powered wireless storage for using out in the field. Size matters but power matters most.

      Any thoughts would be welcome.
    • Antinomy wrote:

      could you give an input about a wireless energy efficient storage platform to choose?

      Nope. No experiences whatsoever since wireless performance depends on so many factors and I never did any consumption measurements so far in this area.

      But 'performance' means 'the more antennas the better' (increases consumption) and modern standards that make use of 5GHz band. So you need at least 2x2 MIMO and 802.11n or 802.11ac on both 'server' and 'client'.

      I would most probably start to play with an RTL8814AU thingy with 4 real antennas connected to one of the ARM boards with native battery support known to provide at least 900mA on the USB port the wireless dongle should be connected to.
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