Is it possible to install OMV to an M.2 PCIe SSD and run it from this SSD?

Zitat von jollyrogr

Perhaps it is no more dangerous than any other memory/fs configuration

BS. If you save the few bucks for reliable DRAM then ZFS is EVEN BETTER! That's the simple truth.

If you run regular scrubs (recommended and default with OMV, FreeNAS and most probably any other good NAS appliance) your filesystem will tell you if you have bad memory. Since it will report data corruption having happened. Then at least you start to know what ECC memory is for (another step to prevent data corruption).

If you don't run scrubs (really stupid idea) on a system with non-ECC memory still ZFS (or btrfs) does a better job compared to anachronistic filesystems since now bit flips that affect filesystem structures are much less likely to happen as on the same system with a non-checksumming filesystem like ext4.

It's still as easy as: use ECC DRAM whenever possible and use a checksumming filesystem whenever possible. At least if you love your data and hate bit rot. If you don't care about your data and think silent data corruption is fine you are free to use anything (since it doesn't matter to you anyway).

Again: please stop spreading such BS like 'ZFS can/should only be used with ECC DRAM'. It's quite the opposite! Please take your time and read carefully through http://jrs-s.net/2015/02/03/wi…n-ecc-ram-kill-your-data/

tkaiser, if the freenas documentation is BS, then take it up with them.

Zitat von Gulliver

Sorry, but that's not relevant to the original post. I was interested in installing OMV to a PCIe M.2 SSD and was looking for practical experiences on the forum.
Some people understood that and pointed me in the right direction

And some people understand the difference between individual unpaid consultancy and a public user forum. Smart people search for answers, smart people might stumble accross this thread later thinking about which boot drive they would need for an OMV installation. It's important that these people are aware that using a M.2 SSD is a useless waste of ressources and money no matter what you personally think, like or feel.

Zitat von jollyrogr

if the freenas documentation is BS, then take it up with them

Read what you quoted again. The FreeNAS documentation nowhere states that 'Using ZFS on systems without ECC DRAM is dangerous', they only mention that using ECC DRAM is a great idea and that using ZFS is also a great idea (and I'm fully with them)

The stupid 'ZFS without ECC DRAM is evil' BS might have originated in FreeNAS forums but that doesn't matter neither for the 'product' nor reality (especially if you can't afford ECC DRAM then using ZFS or btrfs is even better since it helps mitigating the effects of memory related data corruption!)

Please read this thread again and tell me where I said running ZFS without ECC ram is dangerous. Never happened.

ZFS is great for some, but I have no plans to use it at this time.

For all those who might be mislead by the Kaiser accusing people of bullsh.ting, simply do your own research and form your own views.

http://research.cs.wisc.edu/wi…zfs-corruption-fast10.pdf

The kaiser has demonstrated repeatedly throughout this forum his use of horse blinkers and the need to try and demonstrate his superiority.
The forum seems to be more about fulfilling this psychological need than providing constructive advice.
One can only can guess where that psych comes from.

Zitat von gwaitsi

simply do your own research and form your own views

Exactly. And stop repeating BS over and over again. The well known study you referenced is about the benefits of ECC DRAM.

Let's keep it simple:

• Is ECC DRAM great? Yes, for sure since it helps against silent bit rot and data corruption
• Is ZFS great? Yes, for sure since it helps against silent bit rot and data corruption
• Is using ZFS with ECC DRAM great? Of course!
• Is using ZFS without ECC DRAM dangerous? No, that's plain bullshit
• Is using ZFS without ECC DRAM great? Yes! Since even if you can't or dont't want to afford ECC DRAM ZFS will help you to mitigate from memory related data corruption. It's even better in such situations

Please stop spreading BS and do some simple logic excercises first. The 4) in the list above is the dangerous statement way too many still believe into.

Again: http://jrs-s.net/2015/02/03/wi…n-ecc-ram-kill-your-data/

There is a quote from the forum that is linked at the bottom of the article your post points to.

"From the freenas forums, here are a couple examples of people who lost their zpool due to bad memory -
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php?thr ... nas.18571/
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php?thr ... ume.15816/
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php?thr ... post-87136
And here is another guy saying you should use ECC RAM
https://pthree.org/2013/12/10/zfs-admin ... e-ecc-ram/"

Each to their own, but as i said;
I am using OMV because I don't use ECC ram, if i was using ECC ram (which i am considering on my next nas upgrade) I will be using FreeNAS.

p.s. you should actually learn something about politeness instead of continuing to be an arrogant prick.
You seem to think you are the all knowing holy grail and if anyone else's views differ, they must be b.llshit artists.
If you are so full of yourself, write a blog where other people are not invited to comment, instead of filling a public forum with one sided views

Zitat von gwaitsi

And here is another guy saying you should use ECC RAM

C'mon. It's not about this. It's about your believe that using ZFS with non-ECC DRAM would cause more harm than choosing ext4: Is it possible to install OMV to an M.2 PCIe SSD and run it from this SSD?

And this is simply wrong. Of course should everyone use ECC DRAM when possible. And of course today everyone should use a checksumming filesystem like ZFS. But this is even more true without ECC DRAM! That's the whole point. No one is questioning that ECC DRAM is always the better choice. It's about this misbelieve 'You have more potential for data loss with ZFS than ext4 if you are not using ECC.' -- please stop spreading such claims.

Zitat von gwaitsi

I am using OMV because I don't use ECC ram, if i was using ECC ram (which i am considering on my next nas upgrade) I will be using FreeNAS.

What comes next? 'OMV doesn't work on systems with ECC RAM?'

I'm a long time FreeNAS user (same with Solaris) and a ZFS fanboi. Currently for us the best OS platform for ZFS especially when combined with appropriate hardware (using Intel's QuickAssist technology -- QAT) is Linux when using ZoL (ZFS on Linux) 0.7 or above (as OMV 4 is able to utilize). For reasons why see performance section at https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/releases/tag/zfs-0.7.0

There's no question that ECC should always be preferred over non-ECC but this is totally unrelated to the filesystem to be used and the OS / NAS distro.

ZFS seems pretty cool and I seriously considered it when building my NAS, but using ext4 and snapraid provided much more flexibility for me. I can add/remove drives very easily. I find that managing and maintaining a snapraid pool is pretty simple. Sure the performance is less than a striping system, but It's adequate for me. The data changes infrequently, and snapraid does my checksumming and scrubbing. If my data was changing continuously, and I needed the additional performance and availability, then making the commitment to building zfs pools would have been the way to go. Anyway, all this crap is way OT.

The answer to the original question "Is it possible to install OMV to an M.2 PCIe SSD and run it from this SSD?" is YES.

Zitat von jollyrogr

The answer to the original question "Is it possible to install OMV to an M.2 PCIe SSD and run it from this SSD?" is YES.

Given that the OMV ISO does not allow to install to NVMe, that it's only possible to install a plain Debian first and install OMV on top, that users keen on OMV 3 need to fiddle around with ugly hacks making the boot process more fragile (which is not exactly what you usually want), this is a pretty interesting 'YES'

Anyway... to summarize for future readers: it's possible to install OMV on top of a Debian that has been installed on a NVMe SSD. Since bootloader/kernel dependencies exist it's not really advisable with Debian 8 / OMV 3 but only starting with Debian 9 and OMV 4 or above.

Running OMV off a NVMe SSD has the following advantages:

• Booting is a few milliseconds faster. If you permanently reboot your OMV box, this is exactly what you need

List of disadvantages:

• With Debian 8 / OMV 3 booting becomes more fragile (get rid of backports kernel and your box is bricked at next reboot)
• No SMART support for NVMe SSDs yet (so no clue what's happening at the hardware layer of your OS drive -- great idea!)
• No way to easily swap out and clone the rootfs compared to running of an USB thumb drive or a SD card

flmaxey, I sent you a PM.