WD Caviar Green 3TB, SMART, hdparm and LCC

  • Hi,


    My NAS setup is made of :

    • a SuperMicro X7SPA-HF-D525 motherboard,
    • 4 GB of RAM,
    • 2 WD30EZRX 3 TB 3.5" hard drives for my data, assembled in a RAID 1 array,
    • 1ST3750840AS (Seagate Barracuda 7200.10) 750 GB 3.5" hard drive for old backup data,
    • 1 WD2500BPVT (Western Digital Scorpio Blue) 250 GB 2.5" hard drive for the OS: OMV 0.5.8.


    I configured the 3 3.5" hard drives to enable APM (level 1 - minimal power draw) and to enter standby after 5 minutes of inactivity. It may seem too low, but I wanted to size the minimal power draw of the box.
    I used my UPS that has an LCD display showing the current power consumption as an inacurate energy meter. The whole setup was drawing 25 W as per the UPS display.


    A few days ago, I enabled SMART monitoring on my two WD30EZRX 3TB drives.
    I started to see fast power draw variation. Jumping from 25 W to 38 W, slowly decreasing to 35 W, then falling to 30 W, then jumping again to 38 W. It seems cyclic, about every 20 seconds.


    I thought I would just disable SMART monitoring and the power draw would be stable again.
    But it didn't work. And I did press the green/rotating arrow button. ;)
    I checked the /etc/smartd.conf file. The settings had been applied.
    I wondered if a reboot would help, but it didn't.
    I did a 'smartctl -a' on the drives and noticed that the auto offline data collection was still enabled.
    I thought that disabling SMART monitoring through the OMV web GUI would really disable SMART monitoring but it doesn't. As far as I understood SMART settings, these are applied and are kept beyond a power cycle. Thus, only removing lines in /etc/smartd.conf seems to be not enough. I may have misunderstood the whole thing, but the behaviour I've noticed seems validate my theory.
    Issuing a 'smartctl --offlineauto=off /dev/sdX' on the two drives solved the issue (not really an issue) of power consumption bumps.


    While fiddling with smartctl, I came accross something else: a sky rocketting Load Cycle Count. A quick search on the web provided me with some answers: WD "Green" drives park their head rather aggressively (see http://koitsu.wordpress.com/20…-aggressive-head-parking/).
    As the Load Cycle Count stopped increasing as soon as I disabled the SMART monitoring _and_ the auto offline data collection, I re-enabled SMART monitoring so that I could investigate on the LCC issue.
    I tried to change the APM settings of the drives, hoping for a change, but whatever the value I chose, even Disabled, nothing changed: the LCC still increased. As for the SMART monitoring, I thought a reboot could solve the issue, but it did not...
    I looked at the /var/log/boot file and noticed the following lines :


    Code
    Setting parameters of disc:  /dev/sda.
            /dev/sdb failed!
            /dev/sdc failed!
            /dev/sdd.


    Disks sdb and sdc are my 2 WD Green hard drives.
    So I tried several values for the APM level for these two disks using the CLI: hdparm -B<value> /dev/sdX. None of the values I tried worked.
    I, then, checked the hard drive's capabilities using smartctl and saw that these drives do not support the APM, nor the AAM.
    By the way, the webgui, when applying the parameters changes did not yield any warning or error, as far as I searched (even through the log files). I think the webgui or the logs should have mentionned the error. Event better, the APM and AAM fields of the Physical Drive Edit form should only be enabled for drives that advertise these features. Shouldn't it ?


    So, here am I, with two drives I cannot change the APM settings, parking their heads way too often. As stated by the author of the link referenced above, these drives are using an internal timeout of about 8 seconds to trigger the heads parking. With SMART auto offline collection starting about every 20 seconds, it is about 3 Load Cyle per minute, thus about 4300 Load Cycle per day, more than 1.5 million per year... Way too much !


    I just wanted to share my experience and ask for comments. All in all, I will now stay away from these WD Green drives if I want SMART monitoring. I think I'll replace them (any advice will be welcomed !).


    Pierre

  • Can't help much with the SMART issues, sorry. I agree though there should be a way to undo what was done.


    As for drives for NAS use I would suggest those designed for NAS use, like the WD red. From what I understand the greens are really made for desktop use and have a 3yr warranty while the reds have a 5yr.


    Good luck!

  • Spindown after 5 Minutes? Good luck killing your hard drives...


    Greetings
    David

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


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  • PhantomSens: I'm looking into these RED drives right now. When I first heard about them, I was fearing a marketing effect. I will take your advice.


    davidh2k: As stated, it was only set this way so that I could size the minimal power draw of the whole box. Right now, the spin down timeout is disabled. But thanks for the advice :)

  • Look over the internet for the seagate 3tb, this disk has the 5 min spindown implemented in the firmware, you just want to get rid of it.


    Greetings
    David


    PS: The WD Red are superb. They interact with hardware controllers better than any other hard disk except business solution hard drives. Also they consume less power and are really quiet.

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


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  • Based on what you two said, I think I'll have to go buy some Reds and use the Greens for backups only. That way, they'll be in standby most of the time, only spinning up once a day (as far as I don't enable SMART monitoring on them...).
    Thank you !


    Pierre

  • Just FYI, I block the spindown on my WD Reds because I pull smart every 3 minutes (only temps) from them...


    And yes, good choice.


    Greetings
    David

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

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  • i never thought of it before, but is there a reason why pulling smart wakes up the disk?
    also are you positiv this is true? i can only test on a usb drive right now, which dont support full smart readings. the drive wont wake up from smartctl -H or smartctl -i

  • From what I understood, it is not SMART reading that wakes the disk up. It automatic offline data collection. And I'm sure it is that, that "loads" the heads.
    I've asked WD support about that and here is their answer :

    • automatic offline data collection starts after 8 seconds of inactivity;
    • heads parking takes place after 20 seconds of inactivity.


    So, the time-line of events seems to be the following :

    • 0 sec - heads are parked;
    • 8 secs - auto offline data collection starts and heads are loaded;
    • 20 secs - as heads where loaded and as auto offline data collection is not considered as a regular disk activity, thus the last 20 seconds are considered as inactivity, so they're parked again, and auto offline data collection is interrupted.


    Support says I shall not fear about the LCC crazy increasing, the warranty of the Green drives is of 2 years, and the 300,000 LCC limit advertised for these drives is not realistic, the heads' arm's mechanism is tailored to go well beyond that limit.
    The conclusion of the support is that, using these drives for more than 8 hours a day is not the use they were made for, or I shall disable auto offline data collection.
    By the way OMV should provide an option to disable that feature, enabling users to have SMART on their drives but not auto offline data collection. Just my 2 cents.


    Pierre

  • I highly doubt that the wd reds have enabled that feature. They are 24/7 drives.
    They are designed to run 24hours a day, 7 days a week...


    Greetings
    David

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

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  • As I said, they are made for running 24/7, I don't know if or how they would spindown if I wouldn't pull smart every 3 mins. Maybe someone can tell you more about if they are spinning down, but I doubt it.


    Greetings
    David

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

    Upload Logfile via WebGUI/CLI
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  • I'll contact the WD support team then. They were really cool on the phone this morning. Moreover, their french phone number is free :)

  • david you can check that by disableing polling and then using hdparm -B 1 to set the most agressiv spindown time. I always thought of the 24/7 rotating thing as a feature label. not something that is actually forced by the drive's firmware. that would be really interesting to know.


    also i noticed something really strange/bad. some of the "physical disk properties" of the gui (storage-> physical disks -> edit) are actually not set on my system :shock: ???
    write cache and smart are not beeing set. i applyied with rotating arrows and checked them with the corresponding hdparm and or smartctl commands.



    and here is the output:


    am i missing something here? is this actually a bug?

  • sektion31


    How do I check if the drives spindown without opening my case ? I have an insulated case, so the wd reds are even quieter in there.


    Greetings
    David

    "Well... lately this forum has become support for everything except omv" [...] "And is like someone is banning Google from their browsers"


    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

    Upload Logfile via WebGUI/CLI
    #openmediavault on freenode IRC | German & English | GMT+1
    Absolutely no Support via PM!

  • you could check with smartctl -a /dev/sdX | grep "Start_Stop"
    this counter tells you how often your drive is spun up. you can manually check if you force your drive to sleep with hdparm -y


    if the drive doesnt spin down with hdparm -B 1, this could be due to hdparm -S (physical disk property: spindown time). but unfortunately one can only set this parameter and not read it.


    I have no clue how -B and -S work together and haven't found something clear on the net. i guess this is all very vendor specifiy and therefor not so easy to figure out.

  • Hi all,


    First, I want to reply to sektion31 about the physical drive parameters not being set in the webgui. I've already submitted a bug report about that. See issues 839, 840 and 841 at http://bugtracker.openmediavault.org/.


    Now, regarding -B and -S options of hdparm...
    These options are completely different things.


    -B is only usable on drives that have the advanced power management feature. You can check that by listing your drive capacities using hdparm -I <device>. In the "Commands/features:" section, you'll see a line for each feature implemented by your drive. A star before the feature means that the feature is enabled. for instance, here's the output for my WD scorpio blue, on which I set the APM level to 254:


    On my WD Green, the Advanced Power Management doesn't appear in that list, meaning that whatever the value you set in the webgui, even disabled or level 255, the drive won't change its behaviour (see issue 840).


    Advanced Power Management is a feature implemented in the drive firmware, it can play with head parking - like in my case/issue - it can lower the rotating speed of the drive, and so on. It can even spin down the drive.


    -S is a timeout that doesn't depend on the APM. This time of inactivity that will trigger a spindown. Setting a 0 timeout disables that feature.
    You may have set your drive to an APM level of 1 (the most aggressive one, with standby) and set the standby timeout to 30 minutes for instance. In this case, your drive may have already spun down - depending on its design - before the 30 minutes timeout.


    I hope I've been clear enough. Do not hesitate to request further details :)
    Good evening all !


    Pierre

  • i added a note regarding bug 839.


    can someone confirm that the write cache checkbox is broken aswell? i dont want to open a bug if something is wrong only with my system. but if it is a bug, then this should be fixed, because it can potentially harm data. one can check, as pierre wrote with hdparm -I <device> or with hdparm -W <device>.


    EDIT: I just figured out, that I can enable caching via gui, but not disable.


    thanks for the clearification on the -B and -S settings. what isn't clear to me is what happens if you set the timeout to a short timespan and set apm >127, which should prevent your drive from spinning down. which setting has the higher priority?

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    I had problems out of Green Drives as well... Also had some problems running Raid1.


    Ended up setting up my last Green drive as "Drive B"... and just set up some automatic rsync jobs to sync my main Data drive (Drive A). It was easier that way, and is just as effective as raid1.

  • sektion31: so did you fill a bug report for the write cache enabling/disabling feature ? For the -B -S priority, I would say that -S has a higher priority. But that's just my feeling, I cannot do the test as my only APM featured drive is my system drive, thus,issuing a command would wake it up.


    KM0201: what problems did you have with running RAID1 on these drives ?


    Pierre

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