Help with Easy Backup solution

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    • Help with Easy Backup solution

      I have a home server with 2 2tb hard drives that are mirrored. Everyone says that's not really a replacement for backing up so looking for an easy solution to backup my 2 tb drives. I have another 2 tb drive in the server just for backup. I am not as knowledgeable as probably most on the forum so looking for a way that I can just backup the raid setup to the 2tb backup drive that I can figure out. I don't need software to back up my other computers to the server, just a way to backup the raid setup to the other 2tb backup drive

      The post was edited 2 times, last by porkenstein ().

    • Still not finding what I really want. My server doesn't run all the time like most. I just used it when I want to watch movies and when I want to backup my pc's. My important data is saved constantly to the cloud and then once a week I want to be able to back up the complete server. I have to admit getting close to going back to Windows Home Server but there must be an easy way. All drives are mounted in the server. I just want a simple way to back up my 2tb mirrored raid to the third drive in the server. Different things I look at make me me select each folder instead of the whole drive. Is there something I am missing. Must be a simple way. I thought urbackup would be perfect but from what I can tell that's just for backing up pcs, not the server itself or am I as usual confused as hell.
    • porkenstein wrote:

      My server doesn't run all the time like most.
      You can setup an anacron job. Anacron is made for jobs on servers that do not run 24/7.

      Search the internet for "anacron vs. cron".
      Example: tecmint.com/cron-vs-anacron-sc…s-using-anacron-on-linux/
      Disadvantage: you have to write a small script for a rsync job.

      Alternative would be to run a job on a regular basis at a time when the server is likely running.

      Or you automatically start the server using "rtcwake" at a specific time. Run the job and shut down the server with a scheduled job some time later.

      Most simple solution: run a scheduled rsync job at reboot; so every time you boot your server it will rsync the data from the RAID to the third drive
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    • Take a look at this guide, starting on page 57. If you want to backup to the additional internal drive, drive to drive, how to do it and automate it is covered. (Note that you can manually run the job if your server is down at the scheduled time.)

      Later, if you have an actual primary drive failure, all you'd have to do is repoint your base shared folders to directories on the backup drive and all your network shares will follow.

      For your OS, cloning your boot drive is easy and highly recommended. ("Stuff happens" and having OS backup allows one to back out of a mistake.)

      Come back and tell me what you think about the guide overall. The idea was to make it easy to understand for users with some PC and networking knowledge. I'll be adding more to it this fall and winter.
      (Topic's such as permissions, how to set up a 2nd fully functional backup server (could use older hardware), etc.)
      ________________________________________________________________

      Regarding Windows Home Server:
      Been there, done that, and found it to be lacking. (Not to mention, it's no longer supported and security for older versions you may find on E-bay is way out of date. SMB implementations may not work and backup for UEFI client PC's is non-existent. )

      OMV for NAS functions, with Urbackup for backing up your clients, works far better and is much faster than Windows Home Server ever was.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by flmaxey: edit ().

    • Whs works great for me. I use Macrium instead of built in backup due to the point you made. I know any form of Windows gets bad mouthed a lot but it's sure a heck of a lot easier to use and WHS has always worked perfectly for me. I will spend a little more time with OMV but I think I will end up back with WHS. Will post either when I have success I want of give.
    • I was where you are, right now, a few years ago. I was looking at WHS installs that were not going to be supported anymore and I didn't want to pop for the price of Windows Server Essentials for home use, so the search was on. I tested a number of Distro's that included Amahi server, SME, ClearOS, various turnkey distros, freenas, rockstor, etc. For my point of view, OMV was the best of the lot.
      __________________________________________________

      Just remember, as part of your decision, WHS in either of the tw0 versions is way out of date. As it is right now, the latest version (WHS2011), won't backup UEFI clients (generally Win 8.0 installs and up). While M$ dropped support for WHS, they continued to develop newer SMB protocols. (SMB protocols are what make network shares, in a workgroup, possible.)

      The original WHS uses SMB1 which, with M$'s regular security updates, is now locked out of updated Windows Clients (Vista and up). WHS2011 is aware of SMB2, but it will never be updated from there. The current SMB protocol in use, with Win10 and the later versions of Windows Server, is SMB3.1.1 If history repeats itself, during the next few years, SMB2 will be locked away from Windows clients as well.

      What it boils down to is, there's no future at all for WHS and it won't be long before WHS2011's network protocols are old enough to where updated Windows clients won't connect to it. That leaves Windows Server Essentials which is "pricy" and requires substantial time and knowledge to configure, to get it to work in a similar manner to WHS.

      I understand that getting around Linux's idiosyncrasies is a pain in the beginning but, it's free, it will continue to be updated, and it's supported. When it comes to software issues, most of the problems encountered can be fixed with regular backup. (Both OS and Data backups.)

      When it comes to support, if you posted something on a M$ support site (a paid product), I doubt you'd get an answer,,, ever... On the other side of the fence, I've noticed that support in the open source community is (amazingly) better and far more responsive. One of OMV's Dev's wrote a plugin for UrBackup, because I asked! (I explained the need for cross platform client backup and bare metal restoration. He looked over Urbackup and the rest is history. Awesome...)

      But we all have our priorities and comfort zones, so I'll get off my soap box. :)
      If there's something you'd like to see in the guide, let me know.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • Deletion of files from the destination, that are not in the source, is a requirement for a true mirror. Otherwise, without the --delete switch, the destination drive would get,, well,,, "fat". :)

      If one wants file deletion protection, the --delete switch could be dropped. It could be reinserted, from time to time, for clean up.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • henfri wrote:

      Sorry, No.

      He does have a mirror already. He needs a backup.

      Removing the delete option will create a mess. A versioned backup is the solution.

      Did I mention rsnapshot? That does it all for you. Based on rsync by the way

      While I'd agree that rsnapshot is a much more flexible solution, being the rough equivalent of ZFS Snapshots, a number of user decisions would be involved in a restoration. In @porkenstein 's posts, he's made it clear that he's looking for "simple backup" and restoring from Snapshots (if rsnapshot is anything like ZFS) is not dirt simple.

      Also, while it wasn't specifically stated, I was going on the assumption that porkenstein' 's mirror is a RAID1 mirror. That's definitely not backup. And while a Rsync'ed drive is the equivalent of a delayed write mirror, is fits the definition of backup. The RAID1 pair could die and porkenstein's data, as of the last Rsync job, would still be there.

      With an Rsync'ed drive, in OMV, it's also a breeze to restore network shares. Simply change the shared folder from the directory on the dead drive, to the replica directory on the Rsync'ed drive, and the SMB network share follows. The user would be back in business, immediately, with their data available on the network. Replace the dead data drive(s), reverse the source and destination in the Rsync command line, run it, and all is well again. Simple. I plan to cover this recovery process in the Guide, in detail, this fall.

      Sometimes the best way may not be the right way, for some, depending on skill level. And then there's getting these concepts and processes down, in black and white, so that a broad audience understands them.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • rsnapshot is just as easy to restore as rsync because it keeps all files sync'd in each of its folders. It just uses hardlinks. So, you could go to the desired snapshot and rsync it right back to the source to go back to that snapshot.
      omv 4.1.12 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • First, let's keep in mind that this thread is about a "simple" full drive backup. While not mentioned, but just as important, a simple restoration process is implied.
      _________________________________________________

      Yesterday, I loaded up rsnapshot, just to see how it works. Unless I got it completely wrong, rsnapshot sync's shared folders - not entire drives. With that noted; for myself and the wife, there are 10 each shared folders supporting our network shares. That might be more than the average NAS setup, but I'm guessing that most users have at least 4 or 5 shares.

      Since there doesn't seem to be a "restore" button in the rsnapshot plugin; in my case, restoring a dead data drive would mean creating 10 rsync command lines to restore all shares to a new or recovered drive. While I could do it, the potential for errors and mistakes might create even more problems for beginners.

      With Rsycn, executed as a Scheduled Task in the GUI, full drive backup is easy:
      Finding the correct drive mount points, constructing the command line, etc., is described in detail, in the guide. (On page 58, in the current version.)

      rsync -av --delete /srv/dev-disk-by-label-DATA1/ /srv/dev-disk-by-label-BACKUP/

      Since the info needed has already been collected - restoration is easy by swapping the source with the destination.
      rsync -av --delete /srv/dev-disk-by-label-BACKUP/ /srv/dev-disk-by-label-DATA1/

      (The restoration process is not in the guide yet, but I plan to add it.)
      Both command lines can be added to scheduled tasks, with the second restoration task disabled - to be run manually only.
      _______________________________________________

      So, if I missed something, please advise. Otherwise, help me out here with the following in mind:

      porkenstein wrote:

      /---/ I am not as knowledgeable as probably most on the forum so looking for a way that I can just backup the raid setup to the 2tb backup drive that I can figure out. /---/
      I've already conceded that Rsnapshot is better but the restoration processes may require a skill level that some beginners might not have.

      Thinking about it from that prospective, an Rsycn drive-to-drive "backup and restore" plugin would be pretty cool, and it wouldn't require anything in the way of maintenance from version to version.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • flmaxey wrote:

      rsnapshot sync's shared folders - not entire drives
      When used from the plugin, this is true. But, it is the same for rsync. You are getting around that by using scheduled jobs. It is possible to do that with rsnapshot as well.

      flmaxey wrote:

      an Rsycn drive-to-drive "backup and restore" plugin would be pretty cool,
      It kind of already exists. If you create the rsync jobs (yes, for each shared folder) in the web interface, you can create another job with the reverse flow BUT mark it disabled. Clicking Run on the reverse job will restore. I do this for all of my rsync jobs:

      enabled::folder1 syncs to folder1backup
      disabled::folder1backup syncs to folder1
      omv 4.1.12 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      flmaxey wrote:

      rsnapshot sync's shared folders - not entire drives
      When used from the plugin, this is true. But, it is the same for rsync. You are getting around that by using scheduled jobs. It is possible to do that with rsnapshot as well.
      Since it can be constructed without leaving the GUI, I thought of the drive-to-drive work around, using Scheduled Tasks, would be useful for beginners. :D

      I'll have to look into doing the same with rsnapshot but, looking at their web site, their doc's are "underwhelming". Their HOW-TO link ends with a "page-not-found".

      Still, the decision processes required to select the appropriate rsnapshot for restoration might make it too complicated for beginners and/or it may require them to get on the CLI.

      ryecoaaron wrote:

      It kind of already exists. If you create the rsync jobs (yes, for each shared folder) in the web interface, you can create another job with the reverse flow BUT mark it disabled. Clicking Run on the reverse job will restore. I do this for all of my rsync jobs:
      enabled::folder1 syncs to folder1backup
      disabled::folder1backup syncs to folder1
      Still it's at the shared folder level. I use this for over-the-network share replication with Remote Mount but, for a simple local drive backup, it's complicated for beginners and with a lot of shares it's an extensive set up for any skill level.

      It would be great to be able to pick a source drive and a destination drive, a schedule, and it's done. Simple. Restore could be a button, with a "are you sure" caution popup, that restores to a new drive (raid pair, etc.) with the same label or maybe another drive that's wiped and mounted.

      Just a thought... :)
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • macom wrote:

      flmaxey wrote:

      rsnapshot sync's shared folders - not entire drives
      you can use rsnapshot on /sharedfolders on OMV4 which basically backups all the user data
      I thought of using the same concept when I set up OMV for the first time, put everything in sub-dir's under a root shared folder. But it introduces permissions issues and data segregation problems that might not be desirable as new users gain experience.

      And there's still the selection of the appropriate rsnapshot to restore, and the command lines needed to do the restoration. While this may seem simple to me and you, it's not so readily apparent to beginners. Keeping a beginner in the GUI, as much as is possible, seems like a worthy goal.
      Good backup takes the "drama" out of computing
      ____________________________________
      Primary: OMV 3.0.99, ThinkServer TS140, 12GB ECC, 32GB USB boot, 4TB+4TB zmirror, 3TB client backup.
      Backup: OMV 4.1.9, Acer RC-111, 4GB, 32GB USB boot, 3TB+3TB zmirror, 4TB Rsync'ed disk
      2nd Data Backup: OMV 3.0.99, R-PI 2B, 16GB boot, 4TB WD USB MyPassport - direct connect (no hub)
    • flmaxey wrote:

      It would be great to be able to pick a source drive and a destination drive, a schedule, and it's done. Simple. Restore could be a button, with a "are you sure" caution popup, that restores to a new drive (raid pair, etc.) with the same label or maybe another drive that's wiped and mounted.
      So, you want something that effectively clones one drive to another drive? Not just an rsync? ie creates the partition table and filesystem then rsyncs the data.

      flmaxey wrote:

      their doc's are "underwhelming"
      The man page is much better - linux.die.net/man/1/rsnapshot
      omv 4.1.12 arrakis | 64 bit | 4.15 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 4.1.11
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!