Any particular reason why you're suggesting to install from source and not simply using the Debian package?
And why is ZnapZend mentioned that late instead of at the beginning?
Questions about zfs snapshot guide
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Please don't post questions on guide threads. Start a new thread with the question.
Any particular reason why you're suggesting to install from source and not simply using the Debian package?
Not everyone has contrib enabled in their repo list. So, it probably wasn't realized that it was available.
Tagging @crashtest to answer the other question.
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Any particular reason why you're suggesting to install from source and not simply using the Debian package?
Another factor considered; users who are not OMV/Debian users, search for and find solutions on this forum. A package from the contributor would work for them as well, with very little modification, if any at all. And the document would apply as well in most, if not all, of the details.
And why is ZnapZend mentioned that late instead of at the beginning?
The focus of a document that's intended for teaching or briefing opens up with general terms, explaining the purpose, what it's about, etc., and works through a process. Indexes, bibliographies, additional references and, in this case, notes with an alternate approach go toward the end. That is, for the most part, standard.
If you where to write a ZnapZend How-To, I'm sure that it would be appreciated. And it would be appropriate, if you choose to do so, to mention zfs-auto-snapshot toward the end.
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Please don't post questions on guide threads
Well, those questions should serve as a warning for the guide in question.
zfs-auto-snapshot is a simple shell script dating back to 2011. Back then it was an improvement helping people to simply set up snapshots. Since they're local only and make not of use of ZFS' send/receive feature to easily transfer snapshots to another disk or even better location, they provide only a very limited means of data protection.
The zfs-auto-snapshot 'project' is more or less dead (42 open issues, 15 open pull requests, both a clear sign that this script is unmaintained). It's also of no relevance any more since it's not 2011 but 2019 and we have ZnapZend since several years (which works better than zfs-auto-snapshot even with local snapshots -- see below). So why promoting zfs-auto-snapshot in the first place?
Encouraging users to ride a dead horse especially when there is a much better alternative available since years really makes no sense to me. Though writing a guide how to combine ZnapZend with Samba to provide the snapshots as Windows shadow copies (explaining how to do this in OMV with global and share 'Extra options') would be a good idea worth to spend some time on ( @cabrio_leo for example could provide details).
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Though writing a guide how to combine ZnapZend with Samba to provide the snapshots as Windows shadow copies (explaining how to do this in OMV with global and share 'Extra options') would be a good idea
Then Write it up. Since you seem to be using ZnapZend, it should be easy enough.
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crashtest is writing guides for noobs and I applaud that because I don’t have the patience for it. You seem to have a different opinion for everything he writes. Opinions do not belong in a guide thread. Write a better guide if something is not the latest and greatest. But using something “old” is not always bad and if it still works, it doesn’t need a warning. If it is in the Debian repos, it should have a maintainer IF it breaks. I use plenty of things that haven’t been updated in years because they don’t need an update.
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crashtest is writing guides for noobs and I applaud that because I don’t have the patience for it
I would applaud that as well if the author wouldn't have stopped to learn some time ago and still actively refuses to learn.
We're talking about [HOW-TO]: ZFS - Setup Automated, Self Rotating and Purging snapshots
The author of this 'guide' started to use ZFS two years ago, then discovered the possibilities and then took some notes (he deleted this first 'guide' just as a lot of his other older posts when he was present here as flmaxey spreading even more BS than today). Baby steps.
This is not a guide, it's not helpful for anyone and especially not newbies. It's just the result of someone sitting bored at home. Now the very same contents from 1.5 years ago transformed into a PDF version covering OMV3 with a link to an advertising site are posted to the 'guides' section.
Why do you support this?
I mean there are great guides like this by @subzero79: [GUIDE] Windows Previous Versions and Samba (Btrfs - Atomic COW - Volume Shadow Copy) explaining the great benefits of snapshots in the NAS/Samba context. Possible with btrfs, possible with ZnapZend and ZFS, not possible yet with zfs-auto-snapshot (needs a more recent Samba version and as such OMV5). So why the hell is something as incapable as zfs-auto-snapshot featured in 2019? This tool was a nice hack half a decade ago. Now someone starting to play with ZFS discovered it and dedicated some time to write a distracting 'guide'. Why has this to happen?
But why not telling such users that they should improve? It's not about censoring stuff (in fact all my 'moderator interaction' with this specific user was approving posts I found to be distracting or even stupid) but it's about the project itself. If someone posts BS it has to be possible to mark BS as BS.
Most probably this is a lot of an intercultural issue. @crashtest constantly babbles about 'crass language' not able to realize that he as an US citizen with his cultural background is not enabled to judge others by their language. I'm not perfect or even good in any of the foreign languages I learned and obviously English is not my mother tongue. I'm from Central Europe and here we say what we think (maybe related to not that many idiots running around with guns as in the US). Linux kernel maintainer Willy sums it up: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/20/257
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I would applaud that as well if the author wouldn't have stopped to learn some time ago and still actively refuses to learn.
I applaud anyone who writes guides. If someone's guide has wrong info, I try to point it out nicely instead of telling them how worthless their effort is. Like a lot of documentation, you should compare to other documentation and learn about what you are doing. Guides should be a starting point. I'm sure I have posted plenty of things that are wrong and I am still actively trying to learn.
maybe related to not that many idiots running around with guns as in the US
I'm from Central Europe and here we say what we think
Your opinion of people in the US is very clear. I know and work with many Europeans and they seem to have more tact than you do even though they speak what they think too.
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Your opinion of people in the US is very clear
Not at all... the people from the US I met are awesome (I live in Munich BTW).
Back to the issues...
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This is not a guide, it's not helpful for anyone and especially not newbies.
I suppose a newbie has to told you this, uh? Nonsense. That hasn't happened, you know it, and I've had feedback direct from users to support. It's a guide designed to provide a clear understanding of snapshots, to make the script install easy, and to explain the effects of command settings - a text book "How-To".
The zfs-auto-snapshot shell script and cron job approach, with zero dependencies, has been working fine right up to kernel 4.19, with current ZFS utilities and packages.It's just the result of someone sitting bored at home.
I am neither bored nor sitting around. I can type a page in short order and I tend to do it on a break from maintaining/repairing equipment, working my land, or building something. You see, I'm not a one trick pony with a Vitamin D deficiency. There's much more to life than a computer.
maybe related to not that many idiots running around with guns as in the US
I'm "running around" in the US, carrying concealed and I can assure you, I'm not an idiot. I'm a fan of the ballistic arc and prefer NATO 9MM, 5.56 and there's nothing like 7.62 and good optics for reaching out. (Of course 50 cal, in match rounds and a good bolt gun, is King. Think the McMillan Tac50
It's off-the-wall stuff like this, that has no bearing on anything, along with the fascination for multiple external links, obviously cherry picked to reinforce opinions, and acting like a (fill in the blank __________) that makes my eyes glaze over.
@crashtest constantly babbles about 'crass language' not able to realize that he as an US citizen with his cultural background is not enabled to judge others by their language.
Do you not see the shear lunacy in this? This forum is electronic printed media. If one can't believe what is clearly displayed on screen, what else is there to "judge" ? Facial expressions?
Your link (yet another link) to "Linux kernel maintainer Willy" doesn't excuse or justify your behavior either. Attacking people for their opinions is not "speaking plainly". You've abused so many on this forum, it's nothing short of amazing - "appalling" is a much better word for it. Do you need a few reminders? There are plenty of posts to chose from. This is why I can't, and don't, take you seriously. If you could learn (first) to calm down and (second) to accept that your way is not the only way, that might be a start. But I know, at this point, even the suggestion is a waste of time.
_____________________________________Now, as you say, onto the "real issue".
What does this thread really boil down to? Just because I won't write a document on a topic you chose, and write it in the way you seem to think it should be written, means there shouldn't be a document at all? Is that it?
Do you know why I wrote this particular document? When I asked you about ZFS snapshots years ago, I got a link to ZnapZend, followed by the sound of "crickets", which might as well have been (nothing). You're real good about talking up the wonders of snapshots to newbies but when it comes to even a hint for implementation, you couldn't be bothered. That kind of indifference is not what the project is about. OMV is about "doing it" and making it easy, not just talking about it. Then when someone "does it", taking action when you chose not to, you want to nit pick what they do and say? Please - give me a break.If you like ZnapZend and actually believe there's more than two or three OMV use cases, where a user may have a primary ZFS server AND a backup ZFS server, here's the suggestion again; write the document.
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