Help deciding on what OS for NAS solution

    • Help deciding on what OS for NAS solution

      Hello,


      So I am going to be building a NAS in the coming weeks current specs are:
      I7 2600k OC to 4.4ghz,
      24gb non ecc ram at 1333mhz cl9
      Asrock p67 pro 3
      2 x 120gb ssd boot drives mirrored
      8 x 2tb 7200 rpm 256mb cache seagate drives = these will be ran in a raidz3/equivalent
      HBA Lsi 9200-8I
      1 pcie x1 to x16 riser for the HBA or GPU
      Rx 480 - GPU acceleration/needed due mobo refusing to boot w/o one


      So I have narrowed down my options to Freenas or Openmediavault not really into the idea of Unraid.
      I have spent the best part of the past 3-6 months researching and
      messing around with both of these solutions within a VM I like both.
      Though I am definitely stuck between the two.


      My use case:


      File storage - Music/Films
      Plex for streaming said media
      running minecraft server with mods/ARMA 3 server with mods
      maybe running VM with gpu pass through so another person can play games when at my house
      running a VM so I have desktop experience anywhere with an internet connection



      I am aware Freenas doesn't allow GPU passthrough yet (Nvidea on linux to
      extent) but to my understanding its in dev but has been in dev for 5+
      years so... Its not a deal breaker I love the simplicity and helpful
      guides and docs freenas has. Oh natively supports ZFS big+


      Openmediavault allows gpu pass through with some setup of course, it can also setup and use ZFS but doesnt use it natively.


      I would say I am more confident jumping into freenas more than
      openmediavault only because I only really looked into openmediavault the
      past few weeks and it seems user friendly just doesnt have that much
      user guides and support compared to freenas but this could be down to my
      lack of perspective.


      I would be happy with either one of these solutions I would just really like and appreciate some outside thoughts and opinions.

      Thank you in advance!
    • TechnoDadLife wrote:

      Why not just try them out and see which one you like the best?
      I have I just cant really decide I like them both but I am more confident jumping into freenas than I am to Openmediavault due to the amount of Guides and Docs out there for freenas but saying that I do also like openmediavault alot its seems a lot more flexible than freenas in quite a few cases
    • crackjack wrote:

      use ZFS but doesnt use it natively
      If you use the Debian kernel, a zfs kernel module will be built using dkms. This module is just as native as any other Linux filesystem. If you use the Proxmox kernel (install with omv-extras), the module is builtin. So, while zfs isn't exactly treated like other Linux filesystems, it is very solid and stable.

      crackjack wrote:

      due to the amount of Guides and Docs out there
      Many of the functions you want out of your NAS would be accomplished using docker and there are many guides for OMV and docker in general.

      crackjack wrote:

      maybe running VM with gpu pass through so another person can play games when at my house
      Why don't you use this system as a desktop and get a smaller system for the NAS? Your OC'd 2600k is very much overkill for your NAS purposes and a NAS really should be headless and left in a corner to just be a NAS.
      omv 5.0.10 usul | 64 bit | 5.0 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 5.1.1
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      use ZFS but doesnt use it natively
      If you use the Debian kernel, a zfs kernel module will be built using dkms. This module is just as native as any other Linux filesystem. If you use the Proxmox kernel (install with omv-extras), the module is builtin. So, while zfs isn't exactly treated like other Linux filesystems, it is very solid and stable.

      crackjack wrote:

      due to the amount of Guides and Docs out there
      Many of the functions you want out of your NAS would be accomplished using docker and there are many guides for OMV and docker in general.

      crackjack wrote:

      maybe running VM with gpu pass through so another person can play games when at my house
      Why don't you use this system as a desktop and get a smaller system for the NAS? Your OC'd 2600k is very much overkill for your NAS purposes and a NAS really should be headless and left in a corner to just be a NAS.
      I have 2 systems currently and I5 and I7, i5 is the daily driver and the i7 has been sitting in a case waiting for this, in the coming month I will be buying an assortment of parts, Ryzen CPU, mobo, ram to give my main system an upgrade the I5 will be used in a htpc later down the line and I7 for the server. I own everything besides the hba and hdd drives so I will be getting them too. The systems priority is to be a home server that has redundancy so I can store all my music, movies and shows these will streamed with plex, next task is to be able to run modded minecraft/arma 3 since I have friends who play these with (2 cores 4thread assigned and 8gb ram) the reason why I need a powerful cpu as both of these server apps like fast single core perf. The possibility how also gaming on a vm would be a nice bonus but isnt really a priority only the first 2 tasks/use cases. Freenas can run minecraft with a built in plugin which is nice and for my use case it is definetly more plug and play but saying that OMV is shining out to me now to be more flexible plus I have always been meaning to learn linux.

      I really want other peoples perspectives on this will what I want be achievable I kinda know it is but like I said OMV lacks the documentation on the sorta things I am looking for though I could of just missed it.
    • crackjack wrote:

      OMV lacks the documentation on the sorta things I am looking for though I could of just missed it.
      Between the guide forum forum.openmediavault.org/index.php/Board/29-Guides/, the info in the forum itself, and the readthedocs wiki openmediavault.readthedocs.io/en/latest/, is there something else you can think of that is missing? I know it isn't as much as the commercially supported option but it should get you through a lot.

      As for perspective, I spent years looking for the right NAS. Back in the day, I chose Ubuntu configured by hand over FreeNAS. When OMV was first announced, I was on board right away and I've been using it ever since.

      And if you are looking for flexibility and future-proofing, Linux is the way to go. Docker is going to open a huge world that is never going to be native on FreeBSD since it will use a compatibility layer for Linux containers.

      crackjack wrote:

      Freenas can run minecraft with a built in plugin which is nice and for my use case it is definetly more plug and play
      Running a minecraft server in a docker seems to be pretty popular (this image has 10 million+ downloads and looks ultra easy to setup). What makes FreeNAS more "plug and play"? Just the minecraft plugin?
      omv 5.0.10 usul | 64 bit | 5.0 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 5.1.1
      omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github

      Please read this before posting a question and this and this for docker questions.
      Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!
    • ryecoaaron wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      OMV lacks the documentation on the sorta things I am looking for though I could of just missed it.
      Between the guide forum forum.openmediavault.org/index.php/Board/29-Guides/, the info in the forum itself, and the readthedocs wiki openmediavault.readthedocs.io/en/latest/, is there something else you can think of that is missing? I know it isn't as much as the commercially supported option but it should get you through a lot.
      As for perspective, I spent years looking for the right NAS. Back in the day, I chose Ubuntu configured by hand over FreeNAS. When OMV was first announced, I was on board right away and I've been using it ever since.

      And if you are looking for flexibility and future-proofing, Linux is the way to go. Docker is going to open a huge world that is never going to be native on FreeBSD since it will use a compatibility layer for Linux containers.

      crackjack wrote:

      Freenas can run minecraft with a built in plugin which is nice and for my use case it is definetly more plug and play
      Running a minecraft server in a docker seems to be pretty popular (this image has 10 million+ downloads and looks ultra easy to setup). What makes FreeNAS more "plug and play"? Just the minecraft plugin?
      To be completely honest I have only been researching this over the past 6 months and most of that was freenas research as it was so prevalent the information that is, I have only started looking at OMV the past month and put it on a VM last week to mess around with, all of my experience comes from windows and windows server I have always wanted to jump onto linux due it basically being I would argue more marketable knowledge to have as well as more flexible and freeing. I just hate programming, I am not bad, I have learned a lot I just dont like doing it I prefer to do the building and soldering of PC hardware like I am excited to build this just not so much about setting it all up thats the boring stressful part for me.

      It is very possible I have been ignorant towards OMV due to how freenas stuff is out there. I was actually considering what you did as third option setting ubuntu with ZFS until I found OMV.

      I definitely agree with you if I was building just a file server I would go freenas wouldnt of made this post.

      I really appreciate those links.

      Plug and play to me is just installing the setup pointing it at some drives select raidz2/3 done then download the plugin for mineos done.
      OMV is very similar to this just with more copy & pasting and a few extra steps like setting ZFS but now I am learning about other solutions like snapraid, unionfs, mergerfs etc

      I am definitely leaning now at least leading toward OMV more as I made this exact post on the freenas forums and they have quite snobby and just dismissive/unhelpful "oh you dont have ECC memory dont bother" its actually quite off putting.
    • crackjack wrote:

      I made this exact post on the freenas forums and they have quite snobby and just dismissive/unhelpful "oh you dont have ECC memory dont bother" its actually quite off putting.
      :D You're not the first and I'm sure not the last to make that comment, having used Freenas, XignaNAS, straight Ubuntu then OMV, I find OMV fills all my requirements, and the forum's not bad either :D :thumbup:
      Raid is not a backup! Would you go skydiving without a parachute?
    • crackjack wrote:

      Serious answer, I just want some extra file security/safty/peace of mind, I have 1.9tb of music which I have been collecting for nearly 10 years 500gb of it is flac the rest is 320kb mp3.
      Then do backups. Including one backup remote (portable drive stored at your work or in the cloud or at a friend....)
      Has it been said before? RAID is not backup ;)
      Odroid HC2 - armbian - OMV4.x | Asrock Q1900DC-ITX - Intenso SSD 120GB - OMV4.x
      :!: Backup - Solutions to common problems - OMV setup videos - OMV4 Documentation - user guide :!:
    • crackjack wrote:

      Who doesnt need redundancy?Serious answer, I just want some extra file security/safty/peace of mind, I have 1.9tb of music which I have been collecting for nearly 10 years 500gb of it is flac the rest is 320kb mp3. On top that its going to be a fun project.
      I don't need redundancy. At least not in the form of RAID. And from your answer it seems you don't need redundancy either.

      With RAID, if you by mistake delete something, it is gone. Same if a hardware or software error delete or corrupt your files. They are instantly gone! The corruption is instantly propagated to all the drives. RAID is dangerous!

      If you want peace of mind you need backup copies, in several generations and locations, not RAID.
      OMV 4: 7 x Odroid HC2 + 1 x HC1 + 2 x RPi4
    • macom wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      Serious answer, I just want some extra file security/safty/peace of mind, I have 1.9tb of music which I have been collecting for nearly 10 years 500gb of it is flac the rest is 320kb mp3.
      Then do backups. Including one backup remote (portable drive stored at your work or in the cloud or at a friend....)Has it been said before? RAID is not backup ;)

      Adoby wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      Who doesnt need redundancy?Serious answer, I just want some extra file security/safty/peace of mind, I have 1.9tb of music which I have been collecting for nearly 10 years 500gb of it is flac the rest is 320kb mp3. On top that its going to be a fun project.
      I don't need redundancy. At least not in the form of RAID. And from your answer it seems you don't need redundancy either.
      With RAID, if you by mistake delete something, it is gone. Same if a hardware or software error delete or corrupt your files. They are instantly gone! The corruption is instantly propagated to all the drives. RAID is dangerous!

      If you want peace of mind you need backup copies, in several generations and locations, not RAID.
      I am going to make this 1000% clear I know raid isnt a backup it wont and will never be used that way. That is not my intention.

      The biggest reason I want raid or ZFS software raid is so if a drive in my 8 drive array fails I dont lose any data the way I would have it set up I could then have 2 more failures before being at risk of losing data. If I just mirrored my drives what am I to do when 1 drive fails and the mirrored does.... That data is gone or I am then paying £300 + 10-15 for 1gb recovered at my local data recovery center. This is a peace of mind set up and have you guys heard of snapshots they sorta not fully 100% protect you against accidental deletion and data corruption and malware.

      I appreciate what your saying but raid as in software raid is my opinion pretty good when done right and I am aiming to do it right.

      Some context I am still really deciding what I want drive wise. its 7/8 2tb drives or 6/7 3tb drives or 5 4tb drives. more drives = more redundancy because you can have more parity I am aiming for 2/3 parity drives.
    • OK, you know that RAID is not backup. Then I assume that you do have good backups, perhaps even in several generations and at several locations. Incremental backups or snapshots to other media or whatever. At regular intervals or triggered by changes to the filesystem if it changes a lot.

      In that case, you won't loose your data even if you don't use RAID. So your explanation of why you need RAID doesn't seem to make any sense. Sorry.

      More drives means more problems. More moving parts that can (and will) fail. And more power draw. And more fans (that also can and will fail). And more drive bays. And more SATA ports. And a bigger PSU. And a bigger case. And you still need good backups for all those drives! I try to use as few drives as possible. Most of my current drives are 12TB Ironwolf. I have decided to start to go up to 16TB Exos-drives now.

      Perhaps you just want RAID for the coolness factor and no other specific reason? And you really like to play computer tech and often buy and swap cheap small drives that fail quickly. That is OK. It is your money. You are not alone...

      If you had some business critical site or server that REALLY needs to be up at all times, then RAID might make more sense.

      In your description you haven't even mentioned how you intend to backup your server. In my opinion that is a much more important issue than the choice of the physical hardware and use of RAID or not. But admittedly less fun. ;)
      OMV 4: 7 x Odroid HC2 + 1 x HC1 + 2 x RPi4

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Adoby ().

    • Adoby wrote:

      OK, you know that RAID is not backup. Then I assume that you do have good backups, perhaps even in several generations and at several locations. Incremental backups or snapshots to other media or whatever. At regular intervals or triggered by changes to the filesystem if it changes a lot.

      In that case, you won't loose your data even if you don't use RAID. So your explanation of why you need RAID doesn't seem to make any sense. Sorry.

      More drives means more problems. More moving parts that can (and will) fail. And more power draw. And more fans (that also can and will fail). And more drive bays. And more SATA ports. And a bigger PSU. And a bigger case. And you still need good backups for all those drives! I try to use as few drives as possible. Most of my current drives are 12TB Ironwolf. I have decided to start to go up to 16TB Exos-drives now.

      Perhaps you just want RAID for the coolness factor and no other specific reason? And you really like to play computer tech and often buy and swap cheap small drives that fail quickly. That is OK. It is your money. You are not alone...

      If you had some business critical site or server that REALLY needs to be up at all times, then RAID might make more sense.

      In your description you haven't even mentioned how you intend to backup your server. In my opinion that is a much more important issue than the choice of the physical hardware and use of RAID or not. But admittedly less fun. ;)
      I don't have any backups currently thats a future project, I have a plan to have ssd to save a snap shot for the array every day upto 2 weeks then have it do that on a rolling basis.

      I am aware more drives means more problems all mechanical things will eventually fail to work, funny enough one industry I am trying to find work in is data recovery but thats besides the point, like I am considering what drive setup its down to budget and what I can source there is no way I can afford bigger than 4tb 2/4tb drives are the best price to gb RN and I want around 10tb due to the fact I have 5tb of storage now full and quite frankly its annoying me everyday that my data isnt redundant.

      Please dont disregard me or condescend to me, there is a method to my thinking :D let me try to explain it so lets say i go with the 8 drives right I have 5 drives of space and 3 drives of parity so a total of 3 drives could fail before data loss this makes me feel confident as it would be holy unlucky to have 4 drives fail. So why 8 x 2tb because I am poor it has taken me 2 years to save up £1000, and if one of those drives fail i can replace it easily there £45-55 this isnt a permanent solution to be clear I have plans this is just the starting setup from parts that I have thats why its so janky I cant afford to go out and buy all the latest server tech trust me I wish I could.

      So I totally agree with you I need backups but that just isnt doable, and it isnt logical to/for me to just buy 2x 10tb drives and run them with resync or have mirror set up because I feel like then I am one step closer away to just losing data that I have spent over 10 years collecting with my software raid I am 3 steps ahead of total data loss. Plus a 10tb drive is £300 if that fails I cant replace it within 2-3 days it would take me a better part of a year to replace it so its logistical too. 8 x 2tb = £430 10tb effective storage and can suffer 3 drive failures replacement cost £53, 2x 10tb = £600, I feel like this is self explanatory

      I understand your concerns and appreciate them I really do it helps me think, you have just 1000x more sure I want a software raid solution.

      If that doesnt make sense to you then all I can say is try put your self in my shoes I cant afford 16tb data center drives that aint happening for a long time.
    • macom wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      Serious answer, I just want some extra file security/safty/peace of mind, I have 1.9tb of music which I have been collecting for nearly 10 years 500gb of it is flac the rest is 320kb mp3.
      Then do backups. Including one backup remote (portable drive stored at your work or in the cloud or at a friend....)Has it been said before? RAID is not backup ;)
      I think once or twice.
      Air Conditioners are a lot like PC's... They work great until you open Windows.

    • crackjack wrote:

      If that doesnt make sense to you then all I can say is try put your self in my shoes I cant afford 16tb data center drives that aint happening for a long time.
      The hardware you listed in your first post is not cheap either. To me that hardware is extreme overkill. If I was in your shoes I would re-prioritize and make sure I have really good backups first. Without good backups you WILL loose data. Sooner or later. And if you have your drives in a RAID the likelihood of loosing ALL data at once increase. If you have no backups. ;(

      How much is your data worth to you? How hard is it to replace?

      You most likely don't need backups for everything. Just the stuff that you really, really don't want to loose. And some data you even may want to have backed up more than just once or twice...

      I suspect that 16TB data center drives cost about the same or even less, over a longer period, say 5-10 years, compared to several much smaller cheap drives not intended for 24/7 NAS use. Hard to know in advance. Big high quality drives should also mean fewer problems, less power, less heat, higher performance and fewer drive bays needed. My new drives comes with a 5 year warranty. So I don't need to budget any money at all to replace them if they break earlier than that.

      I'll stop nagging you now...
      OMV 4: 7 x Odroid HC2 + 1 x HC1 + 2 x RPi4

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Adoby ().

    • Adoby wrote:

      crackjack wrote:

      If that doesnt make sense to you then all I can say is try put your self in my shoes I cant afford 16tb data center drives that aint happening for a long time.
      The hardware you listed in your first post is not cheap either. To me that hardware is extreme overkill. If I was in your shoes I would re-prioritize and make sure I have really good backups first. Without good backups you WILL loose data. Sooner or later. And if you have your drives in a RAID the likelihood of loosing ALL data at once increase. If you have no backups. ;(
      How much is your data worth to you? How hard is it to replace?

      You most likely don't need backups for everything. Just the stuff that you really, really don't want to loose. And some data you even may want to have backed up more than just once or twice...

      I suspect that 16TB data center drives cost about the same or even less, over a longer period, say 5-10 years, compared to several much smaller cheap drives not intended for 24/7 NAS use. Hard to know in advance. Big high quality drives should also mean fewer problems, less power, less heat, higher performance and fewer drive bays needed. My new drives comes with a 5 year warranty. So I don't need to budget any money at all to replace them if they break earlier than that.

      I'll stop nagging you now...
      I dont see as nagging dude your helping me think.

      Its true the drives may cost less in the long run but I dont know where I will be financially in the next few years, I was looking at some WD 8tb element closures and looking at shucking them as they have red nas drives in the 10 and 12 have helium drives apparently but there £150+ each if I did that there is no warranty for them so I am out of pocket if one dies plus replacement cost. I know i will always be able to afford a replacement 2/3/4tb drive if needed.

      I wish I could go out and just buy the best and have offsite backups, my important data is backed up to like 4 different cloud services.