OMV 5 Docker

  • Hey there.


    So I am a new OMV user coming over from FreeNAS which I've been using for about a month. After a lengthy chat on reddit I decided to give OMV a serious try. The main attraction for me was the getting away from the headaches associated with FreeNAS's jails and VM environment. I was assured OMV's Docker system was much easier to use, intuitive and generally works better.


    So I've been using OMV for about a day and the docker situation is way more complicated so far then the jail system (as bad as it was) in FreeNAS.


    I am installing docker then installing and launching Portainer to try and add things and nothing I want is actually there and I'm finding guides sending me to websites to get install scripts which I need to modify and run in Portainer stacks. This is all turning out to be significantly more complex then the jail system I was using previous which would just require I go down a list and hit "install" then fix and configure things after installing them.


    Am I doing something wrong here or it actually supposed to be this complicated?


    Thanks

  • If you find Docker more difficult than FreeNas jails, there is no hope for you.


    You don't have to run Portainer (if you're comfortable with command line).. it's just a lot of users find Portainer's GUI easy to use. Portainer should *NOT* be used to create containers, that's where stacks is far better, as you can just put a proper docker-compose file there, and edit as needed before deploying.


    What exact problem are you having

  • There is probably no hope then. At the end of the day I am looking for a low maintenance/headache easy to use NAS solution, not a managed Linux server box.


    The issue with the FreeNAS jails was the permissions in most cases, there were work arounds for that if you played with the permissions in the jail. Transmission took about an hour of playing with (I had to update the jail startup script to retain its directory pointers and then fix the jail permissions) but once configured it worked. Initial installation was extremely easy, just one click and if I wanted to modify any of the jail settings I could do it right in the GUI menu for the jail itself. On the flip side FreeNAS's VM system is largely a pile of garbage but that was not a huge issue since the primary role of the box was being a high disk count NAS and download manager.


    There were some aspects of OMV I liked (it was more customizable and flexible) but overall the plug-in/Docker system as it is right now is far too complex for a simple point, click and configure setup. Of the three options I've tried FreeNAS/Unraid/OMV I found OMV the most complex to get basic apps setup (qBittorrent, Emby, etc) and running. The zfs implementation was pretty good under the Proxmox kernal but did require the command line to set anything up properly, there was no option in the GUI for L2ARC cache for example. But once setup properly it did work well.


    I gave it about a day and switched back to FreeNAS I'll make due until FreeNAS Scale comes out. If OMV moves back to a GUI based plugin/app install system I might give it another look one day.

  • omv-extras will not be bringing back the downloader or plex/emby plugins. I honestly think the docker stuff is very simple. Sure, some containers might be complex but so are the plugins for that same service. The transmission plugin had many, many settings and was not any easier than the few lines required to start the docker. It surprises me that someone using L2ARC cache wants something so simple that it isn't flexible. That is the trade off with OMV - it isn't super simple but it is very flexible.

    omv 5.5.12 usul | 64 bit | 5.4 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 5.4.2
    omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github


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    Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!

  • Quote

    It surprises me that someone using L2ARC cache wants something so simple that it isn't flexible. That is the trade off with OMV - it isn't super simple but it is very flexible.


    Its the core use case, at the end of the day this is for a large array NAS box. I don't mind a bit of initial setup but I don't want any headaches after that.


    I am not setting up and managing all the apps/plug-ins with command line though. There are lots of GUI integrated solutions these days.


    If Unraid actually supported any type of real RAID at all it would probably be my first choice, but its array implementation is useless for my situation. The zfs plug-in on it was interesting but you can definitely tell its not meant to be an integrated feature especially when trying to do anything with the storage array. The developers decision to force everything to run off a USB key and charge by drive count is frankly a little bizarre as well.


    To get a well performing array you can't really avoid zfs array configuration regardless of whatever you use. The only difference on FreeNAS is you can do all the initial setup in the GUI, the only time you really need to drop to command line is to do a drive replacement or remove a vdev or something. But FreeNAS is pretty much built around zfs so that is not unsurprising.


    I can see the appeal of OMV for people who like running and managing Linux boxes, just not really my thing though.


    Quote

    omv-extras will not be bringing back the downloader or plex/emby plugins.


    Noted. I appreciate the heads up.

  • I can see the appeal of OMV for people who like running and managing Linux boxes, just not really my thing though.

    Not trying to be an ass but can you explain what you mean by this in more depth? docker (especially docker-compose) is a write-once and forget concept. How could this be made easier? I realize selecting a drop down is a little bit easier than typing in a path but not much.

    omv 5.5.12 usul | 64 bit | 5.4 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 5.4.2
    omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github


    Please read this before posting a question.
    Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!

  • Quote

    Not trying to be an ass but can you explain what you mean by this in more depth? docker (especially docker-compose) is a write-once and forget concept. How could this be made easier? I realize selecting a drop down is a little bit easier than typing in a path but not much.

    No its fine, I get everyone has a different opinion on things.


    Having the install via a point and click or drop down is definitely a really nice quality of life feature. The last time I was routinely using command line to install and manage applications was back in the Windows 3.11 (1993) days which was fine back then but its 2020 now.


    These days I tend to avoid it unless I have no other option. Usually for things like setting low level hardware configuration of a HBA or a Mellonax card or something, but its unavoidable in those situations.


    But it is beyond the initial installation in this case. If I need to modify any app network settings (which happens occasionally), start, stop the jail/docker/app/plug-in's etc. After the initial setup probably about 99% of the app management in FreeNAS can be done in the actual jail/plug-in application or in the FreeNAS GUI itself. I don't need to flip into Portainer/Cockpit or use the Docker command line to adjust or update something. It is just really nice being able to see and interact with everything in the same spot in the GUI.


    I get at least on the surface this looks like an intent to bring popular Linux features into the OMV but that is not really what I am looking for a NAS OS.


    I am not knocking the command line for folks who love that but its not something I particularly enjoy or a feature I seeking these days.

  • I get at least on the surface this looks like an intent to bring popular Linux features into the OMV but that is not really what I am looking for a NAS OS.


    I am not knocking the command line for folks who love that but its not something I particularly enjoy or a feature I seeking these days.

    Ah that is much more clear now. Thanks.


    The portainer part happened because I don't have time to maintain/improve the old docker plugin. So, this required another web interface. I never thought this was a big deal since half the dockers that people are installing have other web interfaces anyway. FreeNAS can integrate much more since they are a commercial entity with at least 100 devs. omv has one dev for OMV itself (volker) and one for plugins (me). And I admit that I love the command line and am bad with doing things in the noob way.


    That said, you should be able to use portainer and most things OMV (maybe not advanced zfs features) without touching the command line.

    omv 5.5.12 usul | 64 bit | 5.4 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 5.4.2
    omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github


    Please read this before posting a question.
    Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!

  • No, I get it.


    This is a volunteer project, though I do think with some extra work there definitely could be a case made for a commercial or partially commercial product here. The home NAS/Media server product line is becoming extremely popular with Plex, Emby, etc. I'm sure the Unraid folks are making bank these days.


    But, regardless I and I am very sure a lot of people really appreciate all your effort. A lot of people definitely enjoy using OMV.

  • Portainer stacks are really easy to learn and are widely documented / used by docker's devs.
    It is a real efficient mean to deploy dockers and to manage NAS applications.


    In my (very modest) opinion, only some very closely link to the OS / users access rights applications should be handle directly by the NAS itself.

    I mean functionalities like FTP / Web server / SAMBA / WEBDAV etc....should be handle by OMV itself.

    Portainer (or any other leading docker management app) was a good choice

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