apt run via shell asks for user decision on changed configuration files including the ones managed by OMV - apt config possible to prevent this?

  • Why do you consider this to be "hamful"? Can you provide an example?

    I deleted my post for a reason. I misread what dpkg-divert does. I still think all of these fixes are ridiculous and just another thing that is a pain in the ass to maintain especially since plugins I maintain would need to add.

    omv 6.0.5-2 Shaitan | 64 bit | 5.13 proxmox kernel | omvextrasorg 6.0.4 | kvm plugin 6.0
    omv-extras.org plugins source code and issue tracker - github


    Please read this before posting a question.
    Please don't PM for support... Too many PMs!

  • Just a few generic comments:

    Murphy's law: "what can go wrong, will go wrong" applies.

    While true, nothing can be done about this. It is inherently impossible to plan for the unexpected.

    Therefore "use the OMV web interface" is not an appropriate answer to prevent the issue

    This is the ONLY answer to prevent the issue and other CLI issues like it (also in the users guide), for the reason ryecoaaron gives in the following:

    If someone chooses to use the command line, they choose to accept the risks associated with it.


    On the command line, there are nearly infinite ways to wreak the system, even if it's hardened. It's pointless to find something (on the CLI) that can cripple or destroy the system, "Tag it" and say "this is a problem". I could do that all day long. That wouldn't change or fix anything.

    It's far more productive to offset these risks and the effects of Murphy's Law, for beginners and intermediate users, by promoting "backup". And while they don't need to be prompted to do so, most expert users have their production boot drive backed up, before tampering with it. Otherwise, they're fully aware of the consequences.

  • Just a few generic comments:

    While true, nothing can be done about this. It is inherently impossible to plan for the unexpected.

    This is the ONLY answer to prevent the issue and other CLI issues like it (also in the users guide), for the reason ryecoaaron gives in the following:


    On the command line, there are nearly infinite ways to wreak the system, even if it's hardened. It's pointless to find something (on the CLI) that can cripple or destroy the system, "Tag it" and say "this is a problem". I could do that all day long. That wouldn't change or fix anything.

    It's far more productive to offset these risks and the effects of Murphy's Law, for beginners and intermediate users, by promoting "backup". And while they don't need to be prompted to do so, most expert users have their production boot drive backed up, before tampering with it. Otherwise, they're fully aware of the consequences.

    This post is 100% spot on and really should close any discussion on this any further.

    Air Conditioners are a lot like PC's... They work great until you open Windows.


  • Only divers teams are able to achieve success in the long run.

    We have very diverse backgrounds.

    I'm an inventor and am never satisfied with "not possible" answers. Actually they motivate me to try something different.

    Sometimes I loose, sometime I win.


    Only the sky is the limit and ~ 150 years ago common believe was flying is impossible for man, but it was proven to be wrong.


    Please allow me to have a different view and lets wait and see what Volker's view is at the end.

    omv 5.6.21-1 (usul) on RPi4/4GB with Kernel 5.10.63 and WittyPi 3 V2 RTC HAT

    2x 6TB HDD formatted with ext4 in Icy Box IB-RD3662-C31 / hardware supported RAID1

    For Read/Write performance of SMB shares hosted on this hardware see forum here

  • just another thing that is a pain in the ass to maintain especially since plugins I maintain would need to add.

    I don't see using "diversion" becoming a "must" for plugins. Its an optional feature.

    You would be able to make your own judgement if it would reduce support effort, based on support requests in the forum. During troubleshooting, just let the user report if an old configuration file exists (suffix .dpkg-old) as dleidert pointed out in reply #15


    If other mods would ask for the same information , our common understanding would benefit.

    omv 5.6.21-1 (usul) on RPi4/4GB with Kernel 5.10.63 and WittyPi 3 V2 RTC HAT

    2x 6TB HDD formatted with ext4 in Icy Box IB-RD3662-C31 / hardware supported RAID1

    For Read/Write performance of SMB shares hosted on this hardware see forum here

  • I'll add one last thought to this and move on:

    I'm an inventor and am never satisfied with "not possible" answers. Actually they motivate me to try something different.

    Then you need to learn to script and program. That might start with Python, Java Script, Linux Shell scripting, along with PHP and HTML.

    As I found with reST, when merging a doc onto the project wiki (and dealing with the notion of "documentation as code"), the effort is not to be taken lightly. That experience and others are the reason why, when I ask a question or mention a "nice to have" feature to a Dev (I.E. the person who is actually doing work), when they say "it's not practical", I let it go. Why? I don't have the experience base to understand what they do, the factors involved, the time required, etc. Therefore, because of that basic lack of understanding, I can't even form a cogent argument.

    One of the things I learned in my working life, as I sat in a conference room full of people with "great ideas" is that when the rubber hits the road, they were never there. They never had to deal with the consequences of their "suggestions", during the actual implementation in the field.

    Look, saying that the Star Ship Enterprise is "a great idea" is a given, but the trick is in building it. There's a difference between a "good idea" (a dime a dozen) and "building it" (which generally ranges from tough to impossible). One is a dream, the other is reality. There are miles (kilometers) of difference between the two.

  • Then you need to learn to script and program. That might start with Python, Java Script, Linux Shell scripting, along with PHP

    I started my career as programmer. I can modify code written in Python, Java Script, Linux Shell scripting, PHP, PERL and create code in PowerShell, COBOL and a few other languages.

    Unfortunately all these skills don't help with the issue on the table because "package management" is a completely different problem domain, requiring very specific skill.

    It is comparable to:

    can an average car mechanic instantly diagnose and troubleshoot a race car engine build in 2020?

    in >95% of cases the answer is no, because special skills are required.

    Assuming enough time & money is available to learn new skills, the percentage of failed attempts reduces over time though.


    Fortunately Daniel seems to have the required skills and advised on "how to prevent the issue". His proposal makes perfect sense to me, hence next step is the conversation with Volker.

    omv 5.6.21-1 (usul) on RPi4/4GB with Kernel 5.10.63 and WittyPi 3 V2 RTC HAT

    2x 6TB HDD formatted with ext4 in Icy Box IB-RD3662-C31 / hardware supported RAID1

    For Read/Write performance of SMB shares hosted on this hardware see forum here

    Edited 2 times, last by mi-hol ().

  • It's far more productive to offset these risks and the effects of Murphy's Law, for beginners and intermediate users, by promoting "backup". And while they don't need to be prompted to do so, most expert users have their production boot drive backed up, before tampering with it. Otherwise, they're fully aware of the consequences.

    What is this system drive backup you speak of? It sounds awesome.. :D

    Air Conditioners are a lot like PC's... They work great until you open Windows.


  • What is this system drive backup you speak of? It sounds awesome..

    For me it's cloned thumb drives. They work great. The entire process is documented in the User Guide, complete with the rational for OS backup and a walk through process. Since no CLI skills are required, an OMV/Linux newbie shouldn't have any trouble with it.

    Cloned thumb drives saved my butt when a recent ZFS package update disappeared my pool. I was back in 5 minutes. "Then" I looked at what was going on. (Quick restoration is one of the hallmarks of using cloned Thumbdrives to boot.)

    Maybe, sometime in the future, something based on Timeshift might be considered. Since there's real promise there, time permitting, I want to test Timeshift in rsync mode.
    _________________________________________________________

    I need to look closer at the backup plugin(s) for boot hard drives and, maybe, come up with another walk through. But I can't imagine something easier, for new users, than cloning thumb drives. (Or, for SBC's, SD-cards.)

  • My sarcasm didn't come through well I guess. :). I know what a system drive back up is, but my reference was more to this part of your post... :)

    Quote


    And while they don't need to be prompted to do so, most expert users have their production boot drive backed up, before tampering with it. Otherwise, they're fully aware of the consequences.

    Air Conditioners are a lot like PC's... They work great until you open Windows.


  • My sarcasm didn't come through well I guess. :)

    I didn't see the smile on your Tux Avatar. :)

    I know what a system drive back up is, but my reference was more to this part of your post...

    That "backup" post was written (mostly) for new users that may happen onto this thread. I'm sure you have your own, preferred, method.

    Otherwise, they're fully aware of the consequences.

    Yep,, I've rebuilt more than once as I'm sure you have too.

  • I'm an inventor and am never satisfied with "not possible" answers.

    Maybe you confuse “not possible” answers with “not gonna” answers.

    Actually they motivate me to try something different.

    I can’t wait to see your new NAS software.

    But I can't imagine something easier, for new users, than cloning thumb drives. (Or, for SBC's, SD-cards.)

    On a more relevant topic to this forum - I will heartily second that thought. Never could figure out the live backup plugin. dd is my darling.

    Easy data backup: In a Scheduled Job: rsync -av --delete /srv/dev-disk-by-label-SOURCE/ /srv/dev-disk-by-label-DESTINATION/ (HT: Getting Started with OMV5)
    OMV 5 (current) - Thinkserver TS140, Nextcloud, Plex, Airsonic, Navidrome, Ubooquity, Digikam, Wetty, & Heimdall - NanoPi M4 (v.1): backups using Rsync and Rsnapshot - Odroid XU4 (Using DietPi): PiHole - hc2, xu4, Pi 3B+, Odroid H2, and VirtualBox: Testing and playing - Mac user converting to Linux, Debian 10 KDE.

  • FYI the change was implemented


    openmediavault (5.6.13-1) stable; urgency=low
    * Issue #986: Divert files modified by openmediavault to prevent
    problems when package updates want to override them.

    omv 5.6.21-1 (usul) on RPi4/4GB with Kernel 5.10.63 and WittyPi 3 V2 RTC HAT

    2x 6TB HDD formatted with ext4 in Icy Box IB-RD3662-C31 / hardware supported RAID1

    For Read/Write performance of SMB shares hosted on this hardware see forum here

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