Building a new NAS (Home use only) Hardware and Software help is needed

    Zitat von chente

    Either of the two plates you propose should work for you. I don't see any apps that need more power on your list.

    To consider. The C3558D4I-4L board is designed for server use and the J4005B-ITX board is designed for desktop. You are going to set up a server. If you can afford the price difference, the first one will work better. ECC memory especially, in addition to other features. Intel quicksync can only be missing if you are transcoding with jellyfin. J4005 has it, C3558 doesn't.

    Keep in mind that they are both atom, performance may seem slow at some point. It depends on what you do with it. You will still be able to virtualize with KVM if you need it in the future, keeping the above in mind.

    What I have seen is that both are from 2017. Perhaps there is something more current on the market, with better performance and lower consumption ...

    Okey good to know that the C3558D4I-4L is for server use and the J4005B-ITX is desktop use. Also good hint with the ECC memory, i will keep that in mind. How you can see what board is for server or desktop use?

    What do you mean with the Intel quicksync thing? Because actually i use hardware transcoding for my jellyfin docker on my Pi4. I definitely need that otherwise the videos are super slow.

    Yeah i try to look for somehting more new then 2017



    Zitat von chente

    You don't need it. I use an old one because I already had it and it's free for me. If I wanted to buy now I would look the same as you are looking. Or alternatively a second hand xeon server.

    Okey. The thing is i now run all the things i do over a Raspberry Pi4 and it works but is not the fastest. It is totally usable but if possible it could be a bit faster snapier. But i totally have no clue in what region i am in terms of power i need. I do not want a slow or not nice experience for a new build machine but i also don't want to crazy overshoot with CPU power i probably will not use and just consumes more power and raises my power consumption. So i try to find a sweet spot in the middle but this is really difficult...especially for my little knowledge i have in the server area.

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    This is going to be long ;) I just hope it helps. I am older and I learned to program in "basic" in a self-taught way with the manual of an Amstrad CPC 6128 for too many years, which I have been with this hobby ^^. But remember, I am not a professional, my profession has nothing to do with ones and zeros. I'm just a hobbyist.

    Zitat von Copaxy

    Okey good to know that the C3558D4I-4L is for server use and the J4005B-ITX is desktop use. Also good hint with the ECC memory, i will keep that in mind. How you can see what board is for server or desktop use?

    Way to differentiate server boards from desktop boards. The desktop plates are designed for general use. That means several good video outputs, good sound output, 2 to 6 SATA ports, a single ethernet connection, noECC RAM, accepts desktop processors, etc ... what a normal PC needs where you use applications of all kinds. . With all kinds of connections and designed to "use and throw away" in a few years, and replace with another. The server boards are designed for a durable, reliable and robust headless machine, to work 24/7 without messing up. They don't need a good video output, just connect a monitor to install S.O. (or not even that is necessary) and disconnect, sound output is not necessary, but if they have many outputs for storage (SATA, etc ...), they accept ECC memory, server processors (the number of cores usually prevails over the speed , if you level up, they accept two CPUs and more memory banks) that allow more simultaneous operations, with security, virtualization and other technologies that desktop PCs do not need. A very common processor in servers is the Intel xeon, there are others. Network connections are also important, if you level up they have several and higher speed. Ultimately, what you are looking for in a server is security, stability, storage, connectivity and longevity.


    Server boards are more expensive because they are more specialized, the market is smaller, so the price goes up. Materials and technologies are more elaborate. ECC memory for example is more expensive because it uses 9 bits instead of 8 for its operation with the same capacity as a noECC (one bit is used for parity), therefore it must be 1/8 more expensive all other things being equal. If you can afford it, it is better, but it is not essential. Many of us have OMVs on conventional desktop boards and we are happy, at least I am. And many others in raspberry PI and they are too. It all depends on what you are looking for.


    Aquí tienes los enlaces a las características de las dos CPU que has propuesto. Fíjate en los últimos apartados, las características que soportan uno y otro de seguridad, etc.


    https://ark.intel.com/content/…cache-up-to-2-20-ghz.html


    https://ark.intel.com/content/…cache-up-to-2-70-ghz.html


    Zitat von Copaxy

    What do you mean with the Intel quicksync thing? Because actually i use hardware transcoding for my jellyfin docker on my Pi4. I definitely need that otherwise the videos are super slow.

    Intel quicksync is Intel's hardware video acceleration technology, it is used to process video files encoded in a certain way and return the data in a format that is easy for customers to understand quickly (in real time). Roughly stated, as if you unzipped a ZIP in real time and sent the unzipped data to another system that doesn't understand what a ZIP is. This work is done by a GPU that is built into the CPU itself. Forgive my language, as I said I am not a professional, this is just a hobby for me. Here you have more information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video. AMD has its own video acceleration technology using GPU integrated into CPU and / or the GPUs of dedicated graphics cards, and NVIDIA also in its graphics cards (CUDA).

    In a server it does not make sense to install a graphics card (for consumption) but if the CPU has graphics acceleration, the clients will be able to take advantage of it.

    If your client is a raspberry PI4 with Kodi, you don't need it, because the client is capable of processing the compressed video. But a smartphone, for example, or another less prepared client, will generally be more limited, in that case the server with graphics acceleration can solve the problem by sending the unzipped video.

    Graphics acceleration also helps to encode video (change formats) more quickly.


    Zitat von Copaxy

    Yeah i try to look for somehting more new then 2017

    Sorry, I can't help you with this, I'm not up to date.


    Zitat von Copaxy

    Okey. The thing is i now run all the things i do over a Raspberry Pi4 and it works but is not the fastest. It is totally usable but if possible it could be a bit faster snapier. But i totally have no clue in what region i am in terms of power i need. I do not want a slow or not nice experience for a new build machine but i also don't want to crazy overshoot with CPU power i probably will not use and just consumes more power and raises my power consumption. So i try to find a sweet spot in the middle but this is really difficult...especially for my little knowledge i have in the server area.

    Regarding consumption, think that most of the consumption is from hard drives. Even more so in your case, what do you want to install? 7. I leave you a thread from a long time ago where I exposed the consumptions of my system. The disks were different but you can see data.


    RE: Suggestions on NAS hardware


    You will see that in the end the consumption of the CPU does not weigh so much in the total. So, are you so worried about CPU consumption? Find the balance. With my core i3 from more than 10 years ago it worked very well. I had a couple of months a Pentium Gold G6400 with OMV, a more modern CPU, theoretically twice the performance. The truth is, I increased the RAM and went back to the old core i3 because I don't notice a difference. Only in handbrake encoding movies, but it is a demanding program. For the rest of dockers it is perfect. What I can tell you is that I have enjoyed two synology NAS, first one with two bays and then one with four, and I am very happy with the change. My NAS is now much faster and more configurable thanks to OMV and the work of the developers. To whom I will always be very grateful. There is a learning curve, which at least for me is being very rewarding. I could not guide you further, I do not have enough experience with other CPUs in servers.

    Zitat von chente

    This is going to be long ;) I just hope it helps. I am older and I learned to program in "basic" in a self-taught way with the manual of an Amstrad CPC 6128 for too many years, which I have been with this hobby ^^ . But remember, I am not a professional, my profession has nothing to do with ones and zeros. I'm just a hobbyist.

    This is not too long, i am thankful that you are willing to help me :). Thanks for your time.

    That is exactly the knowledge i need. No deep dive in IT but Server Hardware knowledge.


    As i said before i study medical computer science what is about 70% IT knowledge and 30% medical school and in terms of server related knowledge beside system architectures and roughly about RAID and normal hardware stuff we didn't learn more about advanced server stuff. More in the direction of networks, gateways etc. and protocols. So my lessons were less hardware based. That is why i so lack of server knowledge and how to build one etc.

    So that is why it is good and i am happy that you explain me the things you know what i don't know:)


    Zitat von chente

    Way to differentiate server boards from desktop boards...

    Ahh okey so based on the ports and what it offers it is made for server use and normal desktop use. Yeah the Xeon and the Epic series are popular for server use, i have also heard that.

    Thanks for the good explanation. I appreciate this informations for my future mainboard selection.


    Zitat von chente

    Intel quicksync is

    This is good to know, i might need that for my NAS


    Zitat von chente

    Regarding consumption, think that most of the consumption is from hard drives....

    Yeah i will read your consumption post, thanks.

    Okey, i will have a look for other CPUs and so on in my research. Mabe i find a good solution in my case. Lets see


    Thanks for the help :) i think now i kow what i am searching for or what i have to look at.

    Hey it is me again.


    I think i need some advice for my NAS board again.

    I am searching for ECC boards but it is really difficult or i am just stupid.

    I now after long time of thinking i am quite sure i want to take a Intel core 9100 with ECC support.

    Now i looked at these boards but i can not figure out if they are ECC supported or not.


    These are the ones i found:


    Supermicro MBD-X11SCV-Q

    Supermicro MBD-X11SCV-L

    AsRock C236 WSI


    The ASrock one says "Supports Dual channel DDR4 2133 ECC/Non-ECC UDIMM max 32 GB"

    but does it support ECC now or not? The supermicro ones say "Up to 64GB Unbuffered non-ECC SO-DIMM, DDR4-2666MHz, in 2 DIMM slots" if i am correct.

    Those specs are quite weird to read so maybe someone can help me?



    • Offizieller Beitrag

    I would download the manuals just to be sure and take a look... but just a quick glance at the specs, it appears the ASrock is the only one of those 3 that supports ECC

    Zitat von KM0201

    I would download the manuals just to be sure and take a look... but just a quick glance at the specs, it appears the ASrock is the only one of those 3 that supports ECC

    okey i did that. It really seems that only the ASrock has ECC support.


    But then i have a question. If ECC is so necessary for 24/7 server use then why the Supermicro boards (mITX) don't support it? Are they still a "consumer" board or what is the reason? NVM


    Do i really need ECC Memory for home use? I listen so many people that they run Supermicro boards without ECC with no trouble.


    If i choose between:

    - Supermicro X11SCM-LN8F

    - Supermicro X11SCV-Q

    for a intel i3 9100, 1151 socket


    Does it make so much difference in ECC or non ECC?


    Suggestions i would appreciate

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Boy you can open up a can of worms with that one. A lot of people swear by ECC and will only use it. In approx 13yrs of running my own file server over 3 different builds... I have never used ECC, and I do not plan to when I rebuild next year.


    I'm prepared to the flamed for that.. :). My suggestion, do your own research

    Zitat von KM0201

    Boy you can open up a can of worms with that one. A lot of people swear by ECC and will only use it. In approx 13yrs of running my own file server over 3 different builds... I have never used ECC, and I do not plan to when I rebuild next year.


    I'm prepared to the flamed for that.. :). My suggestion, do your own research

    Okey thanks, then i also don't need ECC because there is so much sacrafice just for ECC compatibility.


    I know ECC uses a chip for the Error correction but in my case i have so much trouble and sacrafices if i force myself to go with ECC that i skip it.


    Thanks for your answer :)

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von Copaxy

    Okey thanks, then i also don't need ECC because there is so much sacrafice just for ECC compatibility.


    I know ECC uses a chip for the Error correction but in my case i have so much trouble and sacrafices if i force myself to go with ECC that i skip it.


    Thanks for your answer :)

    Completely understandable.. as long as you know the benefit of using ECC, and the risks in not using it. I wouldn't just make the decision based on "sacrifices".. as a lot depends on how important your data is to you (for what it's worth, I think quite a few Asrock consumer boards support ECC). Personally, I have multiple backups of my data.. so not using ECC is a decision I'm comfortable with

    Zitat von KM0201

    Completely understandable.. as long as you know the benefit of using ECC, and the risks in not using it. I wouldn't just make the decision based on "sacrifices".. as a lot depends on how important your data is to you (for what it's worth, I think quite a few Asrock consumer boards support ECC). Personally, I have multiple backups of my data.. so not using ECC is a decision I'm comfortable with

    I will see maybe i will use ECC Memory or not i have to see because of space reasons i like mITX boards but maybe i am also switching to a mATX board like the "Supermicro X11SCM-F" because my case has the space and then i could still upgrade to ECC if i want to but if i buy a new more compact case then i switch to a mITX board "Supermicro X11SCV-Q" even tough i doesn't support ECC.

    Like i said before it is not a rushed build so i take my time with it.

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von Copaxy

    I will see maybe i will use ECC Memory or not i have to see because of space reasons i like mITX boards but maybe i am also switching to a mATX board like the "Supermicro X11SCM-F" because my case has the space and then i could still upgrade to ECC if i want to but if i buy a new more compact case then i switch to a mITX board "Supermicro X11SCV-Q" even tough i doesn't support ECC.

    Like i said before it is not a rushed build so i take my time with it.

    If you are able to set up a server and be comfortable for many years, it is a success. It all depends on your needs, your budget and what you expect from the NAS.

    Don't obsess over ECC memory. It is not essential. It is just one more characteristic to take into account. There are many other aspects to consider. The possibilities are endless.

    Do not forget the UPS, or your backup system. These are questions that will come out later and you will have to solve as well.

    Zitat von chente

    If you are able to set up a server and be comfortable for many years, it is a success. It all depends on your needs, your budget and what you expect from the NAS.

    Don't obsess over ECC memory. It is not essential. It is just one more characteristic to take into account. There are many other aspects to consider. The possibilities are endless.

    Yeah true. I will think about it and later on do my decision on my needs.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    But another thing what popped up into my mind right now.


    About that mergerfs with snapraid thing. If i use mergerfs with snapraid, and at whatever time in the future i want to add more storage, would i be able to add more without any problems?


    And if something messes up my openmediavault installation or i want to chnage my OS drive, will ist destroy or damage the snapraid or my data and is it possible to reinstall OMV or change the OS drive without damaging the snapraid?


    I ask because i had this case once that for whatever reason OMV got totally destroyed and i had to do a reinstall and my data was gone because the Raid was broken.

    Both SnapRAID and mergerfs are trivial to grow (and shrink if needed).


    SnapRAID and mergerf are not married into the core OS in any way that makes your data tied to the OS. The data drives are completely portable at any time without any difficulties.

    --
    Google is your friend and Bob's your uncle!


    OMV AMD64 7.x on headless Chenbro NR12000 1U 1x 8m Quad Core E3-1220 3.1GHz 32GB ECC RAM.

    Zitat von gderf

    Both SnapRAID and mergerfs are trivial to grow (and shrink if needed).


    SnapRAID and mergerf are not married into the core OS in any way that makes your data tied to the OS. The data drives are completely portable at any time without any difficulties.

    That sounds very good :)


    Thank you for the help.

    Something what i am curious about.


    I am currently reading tutorials on how to setup snapraid with mergerfs and as i said before i want to use OMV as a OS (GUI).

    And there are a "snapraid" and a "unionfilesystems" extension. I have seen people installing debian on their machines and then per terminal installing the tools they want and do the snapraid and mergerfs stuff all in the terminal. I have also seen people doing it all over OMV and my question is if it makes any difference on how i setup the snapraid and mergerfs, in terminal or in OMV. I scare if i do it over OMV that it loses its independent abillity and that it is now bonded to OMV instead of being totally independent on its own. So that in any emergancy case whatever i need to do i can do OS stuff or reinstall it and do the snapraid thing or mergerfs things over terminal without the need of the OS or GUI.

    First off there is no relationship between SnapRAID and mergerfs. They are completely different things, and there is no interoperation between them.


    It makes no practical difference how you set these programs, either in the OMV GUI or in the shell as far as the data being independant of OMV or Debian.


    I use the OMV SnapRAID plugin to configure the application because it does what I need it to do. I do not use any of the other GUI tools for it provided within OMV though. As for mergerfs O have always set this up by hand in the shell because at the time I started with it the GUI didn't handle my use case.

    --
    Google is your friend and Bob's your uncle!


    OMV AMD64 7.x on headless Chenbro NR12000 1U 1x 8m Quad Core E3-1220 3.1GHz 32GB ECC RAM.

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von Copaxy

    I scare if i do it over OMV that it loses its independent abillity and that it is now bonded to OMV instead of being totally independent on its own.

    Don't confuse OMV with an operating system. The operating system is debian. OMV is a way to execute commands in debian without CLI. Everything you do from the OMV GUI you are doing in debian.

    There are certain things that OMV modifies in debian to achieve this. That means there are certain things you MUST do from the GUI, but only for OMV to work properly. For that reason alone.

    Zitat von gderf

    First off there is no relationship between SnapRAID and mergerfs. They are completely different things, and there is no interoperation between them.


    It makes no practical difference how you set these programs, either in the OMV GUI or in the shell as far as the data being independant of OMV or Debian.


    I use the OMV SnapRAID plugin to configure the application because it does what I need it to do. I do not use any of the other GUI tools for it provided within OMV though. As for mergerfs O have always set this up by hand in the shell because at the time I started with it the GUI didn't handle my use case.

    So it makes no difference how i set it up, ok.

    Zitat von chente

    Don't confuse OMV with an operating system. The operating system is debian. OMV is a way to execute commands in debian without CLI. Everything you do from the OMV GUI you are doing in debian.

    There are certain things that OMV modifies in debian to achieve this. That means there are certain things you MUST do from the GUI, but only for OMV to work properly. For that reason alone.

    Sorry maybe i have miss written my post a bit. I know OMV is not the operating system. The OS is debian, yes.

    But just what you said made me feel insecure about it, exactly because OMV does modify some things to work properly, i thought that OMV might interfere and maybe change some stuff what makes it independant and later only work over OMV again or does create moe trouble. Exactly this is what i am scared of.

    That is why i didn't know how i should set it up, over terminal or over the GUI (what also does it in terminal commands). Maybe i just do all manual over terminal.

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von Copaxy

    That is why i didn't know how i should set it up, over terminal or over the GUI (what also does it in terminal commands). Maybe i just do all manual over terminal.

    Everything you configure in the GUI or in the CLI, will work in the CLI.

    What you set is CLI, sometimes it won't work in GUI.

    The safest thing is to configure everything possible in the GUI, and if there is no other choice, solve with CLI.

    Zitat von chente

    Everything you configure in the GUI or in the CLI, will work in the CLI.

    What you set is CLI, sometimes it won't work in GUI.

    The safest thing is to configure everything possible in the GUI, and if there is no other choice, solve with CLI.

    Oh okey, that is good to know. So you recommend to do as much as possible in the GUI (what will also work in the CLI) and only the things what are not able to do on the GUI then do manually in the CLI .


    Okey then i think i will do that when the time is ready and i build it.


    Thanks for the help :)

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