What hardware for OMV + Nextcloud

1. offizieller Beitrag

    Hi everyone, so I tried OMV on a Rpi2 and it works great, then I learn about nextcloud, love it.

    I know where to go for software, but I'm totally lost for the hardware.

    For software, I'm sure I want omv + nextcloud and at least 4To of storage


    I would want a NAS that is capable of taking 4 maximum disk/ssd (I'm not gonna do it right now but just in case in the future)

    I learned about RAID, but I really something secure I really don't want my data is being lost 'cause of RAID failure, so I still don't know if I'll do backup (automatically) or RAID.

    I have a Rpi, but I don't think that USB is going to be great.

    It seems that Odroid HC2 has only 2GB of ram, is it enough for OMV + nextcloud ? (I am going to put music, movies for streaming, documents) and I think I will be the only one with my gf to use it.

    If I buy more disks to do RAID, can I do RAID with Odroid HC2 ?

    And final question, I think I'll take SSD for my NAS because it use less power, less noise and it more reliable, but is RAID necessary on SSD ?


    Sorry, it's messy but thanks for your advices in advance ;)

  • samsepi0l

    Hat den Titel des Themas von „NAS with Rpi 4 or Odroid HC2“ zu „What hardware for OMV + Nextcloud“ geändert.
    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von samsepi0l

    I would want a NAS that is capable of taking 4 maximum disk/ssd (I'm not gonna do it right now but just in case in the future)

    A raspberry pi does it

    Zitat von samsepi0l

    I learned about RAID, but I really something secure I really don't want my data is being lost 'cause of RAID failure, so I still don't know if I'll do backup (automatically) or RAID.

    Raid is not a backup. A backup is essential, raid is optional

    Zitat von samsepi0l

    I have a Rpi, but I don't think that USB is going to be great.

    For use only OMV + nextcloud can work. But I would recommend a PI4. A system with sata is more reliable.

    Zitat von samsepi0l

    And final question, I think I'll take SSD for my NAS because it use less power, less noise and it more reliable, but is RAID necessary on SSD ?

    No

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Beyond RAID not being a backup, you can nuke the idea of using a RAID on USB because:


    1. OMV does not allow you to set up USB drives in a RAID. You could do it, but you'd have to set it up manually at the command line level.


    2. An even better reason, a USB Software RAID is a HORRIBLE idea if you want to protect the integrity of your data. If you buy a external enclosure that supports RAID in the enclosure, then you could do this... however this comes with it's own set of issues you need to research (ie, will you be able to get your data if the enclosure dies?)


    If you insist on using an SBC for this (I'd use the best Pi 4 you can get).. just get a 4bay enclosure that supports JBOD... Then set up the drives independently on the Pi4/OMV. Then just set up a couple of rsync jobs that sync the drives (ie. sync drive A to B, to drives C to D)

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von KM0201

    a USB Software RAID is a HORRIBLE idea

    :thumbup::thumbup: Right, I forgot to say that

    Zitat von chente

    A raspberry pi does it

    Raid is not a backup. A backup is essential, raid is optional

    For use only OMV + nextcloud can work. But I would recommend a PI4. A system with sata is more reliable.

    No

    Ok so I would do backup, no need to buy several disks. Nice

    Just yo clarify, no need to buy Odroid HC2 then.

    But if I understand well, you said that USB can does it on Rpi4 and after you say that SATA is more reliable, but there's not SATA on Rpi4

    And can I do automatic backup with OMV ? And is it going to slowing down the NAS/Nextcloud while backup ?

    Zitat von KM0201

    If you insist on using an SBC for this (I'd use the best Pi 4 you can get).. just get a 4bay enclosure that supports JBOD... Then set up the drives independently on the Pi4/OMV. Then just set up a couple of rsync jobs that sync the drives (ie. sync drive A to B, to drives C to D)

    I'm not quite sure I understood something ^^' like SBC, 4bay enclosure or even JBOD ^^'

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von samsepi0l

    But if I understand well, you said that USB can does it on Rpi4 and after you say that SATA is more reliable, but there's not SATA on Rpi4

    This dilemma is often raised in this forum. OMV can run on simple boards like the raspberry pi (or other ARMs) or on amd64 systems. There are defenders and detractors of both. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm not going to start a debate on this here, you can search for information, there is a lot.


    Zitat von samsepi0l

    And can I do automatic backup with OMV ?

    Yes

    Zitat von samsepi0l

    And is it going to slowing down the NAS/Nextcloud while backup ?

    No

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von samsepi0l

    I'm not quite sure I understood something ^^' like SBC, 4bay enclosure or even JBOD ^^'

    if you connect 4 Sata drives to a pi via USB, the drives will have to be in some sort of enclosure. Either 4 individual ones, connected through a hub.. or some folks buy a enclosure that will hold 4 disks, that would have one power source for all drives, and connect through a single usb port. These often support some form of raid.


    Jbod=Just a Bunch (or Box) Of Disks. This means no raid, etc.. and each drive is independent of the others

    Zitat von chente

    This dilemma is often raised in this forum. OMV can run on simple boards like the raspberry pi (or other ARMs) or on amd64 systems. There are defenders and detractors of both. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm not going to start a debate on this here, you can search for information, there is a lot.


    Yes

    No

    Ok so I just want a home NAS/Cloud, I think 2 big ssd connected to USB will be enough then. One main, an the other for backup. As KM0201 said I'll just do a JBOD, I think that willl be enough with Rpi4 ^^
    Thank for your time, your anwsers and your advices ^^

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von samsepi0l

    Ok so I just want a home NAS/Cloud, I think 2 big ssd connected to USB will be enough then. One main, an the other for backup. As KM0201 said I'll

    If you have already decided to do this, it would be recommended that you connect the backup USB drive only at the time of backup. Then you put it in a drawer and plug it in just for backup. Your data will be more secure this way.

    There are several ways to do this in OMV.

    • Offizieller Beitrag
    Zitat von samsepi0l

    You mean there is an automatic way that when I plug the SSD, the OMV is going to mount and backup the data ?

    Yes. With the "usbbackup" plugin it can be configured like this.

    RAM and CPU power needed for Nextcloud will depend on what apps you want to install on it. For example, if you want to use an office web-based suite on it you'll definitely need more resources (RAM and CPU).


    For streaming videos/music on your home network, I recommend you have a look at jellyfin. It's web-based and it also has native client for android. It's very easy to install along with OMV (just add their deb repository and install the jellyfin server with apt, then configure everything via its web interface).


    For a NAS I wouldn't recommend using disks connected via USB. USB isn't a very reliable connection, especially for big disks that need to be permanently on. SATA is highly preferred over USB.


    As for hardware, ARM based ones (such as Pi's) typically use less power, but in general they also have limited CPU processing capabilities. If you want to use only SSD's and not 3.5" HDD's, then you could do fine with an old laptop or mini-pc (such as Intel NUC, Gigabyte Brix, etc...). This will consume a bit more power than a Pi, but not that much more, especially when idle. If you push them to heavy load they will consume considerable more power, but that's also because they'll be providing a lot more processing power than a Pi.


    As a reference, my home NAS (OMV based) is running on an old ThinkPad X230 (which no longer has a screen), when idle, with HDDs spun down, it consumes less than 10W from the wall. That's not that much more than Pi. Same is true for my (newer) NUC (8th gen i5, which I used as my home desktop computer), which consumes between 5-9W when idle. Even running 24/7, at the end of the year that's about 15 euros in the electricity bill, with a Pi I'd save what? 5-7 euros/year? When put under heavy load (CPU and GPU) the NUC can go up to 40-70W peaks, but that's only for a small amount of time and it's nice to have that processing power available when needed.


    I'm not saying Pi's are a bad option. Pi's are great, but just wanted to let you know that for your use case there are other options, that are neither more expensive nor are they going to have a significant impact on the electricity bill.


    Pi's are great for many appliances, in particular when you need GPIO ports, but to use solely as a NAS it wouldn't be my first pick, despite how popular they are. Price isn't a deal breaker either... you can buy an used mini-pc or laptop (for example one with a broken screen) for less than a (new) Pi4.


    Mini-PC or Laptop will (in most cases) limit you to 2 disks max though (where one will probably be M.2 or mSATA and the other will be normal SATA port for 2.5" disks, HDD or SSD, no 3.5" HDD though, since those need 12V and wouldn't fit in the box anyway). Some laptops might have one M.2/mSATA + two SATA.


    For 4 SATA ports, then a mini-ITX SBC (single board computer) might be the answer (ex: ASRock J4125-ITX, but there are many other). These are usually very low power too. You'll need to buy a case, power supply, etc and assemble it. There are also some pre-built barebones, but then the prices can start to go up.


    As for RAID, it's mostly about data availability, not data safety. With RAID 1, if one disk fails, you can still access your data (from the other disk), without any downtime. Without RAID, data will be inaccessible until you replace the disk and finish restoring data from your backup. Some types of RAID can provide faster performance, but that's most relevant for HDDs, not so much for SSDs.

    Zitat von bgravato

    ....ARM based ones (such as Pi's) typically use less power...

    "typically" is the keyword and I've seen the atypical with OpenCV.


    If the task is heavy in linear computations, ARM might use more power simply by taking longer than a x86/x64. I'm not "in the know" on the technical architectural design, but it might be worth measuring a Pi if you encode video at full/unrestricted settings, use ZFS, Ai recognition, etc. A company will design a very specific RISC based ARM for a very specific task to overcome this, but I'm not sure if the Pi itself is great at any one thing (which I guess is where the RPi "Compute" comes in).

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    It seems that we are opening Pandora's box. Now an PI defender will intervene in the thread and we already have it. ^^

    Zitat von olduser

    "typically" is the keyword and I've seen the atypical with OpenCV.


    If the task is heavy in linear computations, ARM might use more power simply by taking longer than a x86/x64. I'm not "in the know" on the technical architectural design, but it might be worth measuring a Pi if you encode video at full/unrestricted settings, use ZFS, Ai recognition, etc. A company will design a very specific RISC based ARM for a very specific task to overcome this, but I'm not sure if the Pi itself is great at any one thing (which I guess is where the RPi "Compute" comes in).

    Yes, also consider that most ARMs found in Pi like devices lack some feats such as hardware support for AES encryption and such, which can make some tasks take way longer time to process on such devices.


    But considering that most of the time (as in a scenario proposed by the OP) the device will be idle, in that state I believe ARM-based devices will "typically" consume less power. My main point though was that the gain isn't significant enough to justify it in most scenarios. Running off batteries could be a deciding factor, but not the case. And as you pointed out in some applications were the CPU might need to be "active" a good amount of time, they might not be the most power efficient option.



    Zitat von chente

    It seems that we are opening Pandora's box. Now an PI defender will intervene in the thread and we already have it. ^^

    Not trying to open any Pandora's boxes... :) I defend that Pi's are great devices for many situations, but they're not the holy grail for ALL situations! Maybe a Pi named 42 could be the answer to all questions though ;)

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