Thank you, will do. Is it then still possible that the two other drives worked without a hitch but number 3 doesn't?
Beiträge von Dan013
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Wonder if you could help me troubleshoot this , used CLI to partition de disk (again) and then proceeded to create the filesystem ( again) . For the first time i reached table 17075of 22357, thought i had it made until it the process stopped.
But since i have no clue what the error message means i hoped you could shed some light on it.root@N5200:~# sudo mkfs.ext3 /dev/sdd
mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
Found a gpt partition table in /dev/sdd
Proceed anyway? (y,n) y
Creating filesystem with 732566646 4k blocks and 183148544 inodes
Filesystem UUID: f891d7fb-07e6-4fb7-9a2d-171ffb1cfc97
Superblock backups stored on blocks:
32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, 2654208,
4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 78675968,
102400000, 214990848, 512000000, 550731776, 644972544Allocating group tables: done
Writing inode tables: 10344/22357
Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:56:14 ...
kernel:[ 1419.421148] page:f754e4a8 count:67108864 mapcount:0 mapping: (null) index:0x0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:56:14 ...
kernel:[ 1419.421236] flags: 0x40000000()
17075/22357
Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951165] CPU: 0 PID: 28 Comm: kswapd0 Tainted: G B 4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686 #1 Debian 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951270] Hardware name: /i854GML-LPC47M182, BIOS 6.00 PG 06/21/2007Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951344] task: f2175500 ti: f2176000 task.ti: f2176000Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951794] Stack:Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951819] f72ff300 f72ff2ec f2177d9c d5166841 f2177d4c 00000022 f2175580 f2175500Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.951939] f2175500 00000000 f2177dec f2177de8 f2177de0 f2177de4 f2177ddc d5790b40Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] 0000000c 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] Call Trace:Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5166841>] ? shrink_page_list+0x521/0xa20Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d51afebf>] ? mem_cgroup_update_lru_size+0x1f/0xd0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5165da1>] ? isolate_lru_pages.isra.51+0x91/0x160Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d51672ff>] ? shrink_inactive_list+0x1cf/0x490Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5167e7a>] ? shrink_zone_memcg+0x5aa/0x6e0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d516806b>] ? shrink_zone+0xbb/0x2c0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5169091>] ? kswapd+0x381/0x7c0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5168d10>] ? mem_cgroup_shrink_node_zone+0x150/0x150Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5078e13>] ? kthread+0xb3/0xd0Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d555b5e2>] ? ret_from_kernel_thread+0xe/0x24Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] [<d5078d60>] ? kthread_park+0x50/0x50Message from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] Code: ff 83 e6 01 0f 44 d8 8b 1b 83 e3 01 74 45 8b 18 80 e7 08 74 31 8b 18 c1 eb 0d 88 19 80 21 01 8b 18 80 e7 08 74 24 8b 70
1c 89 f0 <8b> 18 83 e3 04 74 03 c6 01 01 8b 18 83 e3 02 74 03 c6 02 01 8bMessage from syslogd@N5200 at Oct 30 19:58:36 ...
kernel:[ 1560.952014] EIP: [<d51ecfa0>] buffer_check_dirty_writeback+0x40/0x70 SS:ESP 0068:f2177cc8
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Yep, rebooted. But file system still doesn't work so i've been reading up on Debian and decided to try a few things.Yesterday evening there was one error ( never occurred again) during the file system build and subsequent failure that mentioned a disk GPT issues and using the backup instead.
So i used fdisk ( or another command, not sure anymore) to check it out and it comes back clean, no faults reported at all. I reformat the drive anyway, works fine after which i try to create the file system again but from the console and still locks up after a while.
After some more reading i come across posts that suggest using badblocks to check the disk. I have it running now ( on writing not just checking) and i understand it can take a while.
I didn't see any progress on screen so looked for a solution to that and found iotop, shows badblocks is running with major cpu load so i'll just wait and see what happens when it is done.Seems like a work in progress but i'm still having fun and learn a lot along the way.
FYI system detail
Thecus N5200pro
Changed the DOM to 6gb
Ram is now 1gb, can't go more than that it seems.
CPU is now SL7SM 2 GHz 760 1 533 MHz 90 nm C0 2 MB but seems to register as 1.5 only
3 pcs 3Tb HGST Deskstar NAS drives, 2pcs in RAID 1 and 3rd drive is solitaryAfter all these changes the NAS has been working on the Thecus FW for some time without problems but i also understand that is no guarantee against hardware related issues popping up now.
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So after all the above i tried to install backports kernel again, the below is the progress. Furtest i ever got but still ended with an error in the end.
Install backports 4.7 kernel and headers
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
firmware-linux-free is already the newest version.
firmware-linux is already the newest version.
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
libuuid-perl
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove it.
The following extra packages will be installed:
binutils cpp-4.9 gcc-4.9 libasan1 libatomic1 libcilkrts5 libcloog-isl4
libgcc-4.9-dev libgomp1 libisl10 libitm1 libmpc3 libmpfr4 libquadmath0
libubsan0 linux-base linux-compiler-gcc-4.9-x86
linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-common linux-kbuild-4.7
Suggested packages:
binutils-doc gcc-4.9-locales gcc-4.9-multilib gcc-4.9-doc libgcc1-dbg
libgomp1-dbg libitm1-dbg libatomic1-dbg libasan1-dbg liblsan0-dbg
libtsan0-dbg libubsan0-dbg libcilkrts5-dbg libquadmath0-dbg linux-doc-4.7
debian-kernel-handbook
Recommended packages:
libc6-dev irqbalance
The following NEW packages will be installed:
binutils cpp-4.9 gcc-4.9 libasan1 libatomic1 libcilkrts5 libcloog-isl4
libgcc-4.9-dev libgomp1 libisl10 libitm1 libmpc3 libmpfr4 libquadmath0
libubsan0 linux-compiler-gcc-4.9-x86 linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686
linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-common linux-image-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686
linux-kbuild-4.7
The following packages will be upgraded:
linux-base
1 upgraded, 20 newly installed, 0 to remove and 34 not upgraded.
Need to get 61.9 MB of archives.
After this operation, 234 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Get:1 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libasan1 i386 4.9.2-10 [192 kB]
Get:2 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-base all 4.3~bpo8+1 [19.0 kB]
Get:3 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libatomic1 i386 4.9.2-10 [8480 B]
Get:4 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libcilkrts5 i386 4.9.2-10 [44.5 kB]
Get:5 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-compiler-gcc-4.9-x86 i386 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1 [399 kB]
Get:6 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libisl10 i386 0.12.2-2 [496 kB]
Get:7 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-common i386 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1 [5289 kB]
Get:8 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libcloog-isl4 i386 0.18.2-1+b2 [67.9 kB]
Get:9 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libgomp1 i386 4.9.2-10 [41.1 kB]
Get:10 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libitm1 i386 4.9.2-10 [30.9 kB]
Get:11 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libmpfr4 i386 3.1.2-2 [529 kB]
Get:12 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libquadmath0 i386 4.9.2-10 [193 kB]
Get:13 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libubsan0 i386 4.9.2-10 [88.9 kB]
Get:14 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libmpc3 i386 1.0.2-1 [43.7 kB]
Get:15 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main binutils i386 2.25-5 [3651 kB]
Get:16 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-kbuild-4.7 i386 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1 [590 kB]
Get:17 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686 i386 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1 [450 kB]
Get:18 http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-backports/main linux-image-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686 i386 4.7.8-1~bpo8+1 [37.1 MB]
Get:19 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main cpp-4.9 i386 4.9.2-10 [5155 kB]
Get:20 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main libgcc-4.9-dev i386 4.9.2-10 [2059 kB]
Get:21 http://ftp.belnet.be/debian/ jessie/main gcc-4.9 i386 4.9.2-10 [5483 kB]After this i got a bad gateway fault
Tried again and it seems the kernel did load despite the warning.Install backports 4.7 kernel and headers
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
firmware-linux-free is already the newest version.
linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686 is already the newest version.
linux-image-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-686 is already the newest version.
firmware-linux is already the newest version.
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
libuuid-perl
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove it.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 34 not upgraded.
...
Please reboot to use new kernel -
ok, might have been a bit premature but i tried something else. OMV extras install through CLI. Updated apparently.
root@N5200:~# wget http://omv-extras.org/openmedi…extrasorg_latest_all3.deb
--2016-10-29 23:09:44-- http://omv-extras.org/openmedi…extrasorg_latest_all3.deb
Resolving omv-extras.org (omv-extras.org)... 178.63.91.237
Connecting to omv-extras.org (omv-extras.org)|178.63.91.237|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 184418 (180K) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: ‘openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all3.deb’openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_a 100%[========================================================================>] 180.10K --.-KB/s in 0.07s
2016-10-29 23:09:44 (2.65 MB/s) - ‘openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all3.deb’ saved [184418/184418]
root@N5200:~# ii openmediavault-omvextrasorg 3.4.3 all OMV-Extras.org Package Repositories for OpenMediaVault
-bash: ii: command not found
root@N5200:~# dpkg -i openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all3.deb
(Reading database ... 33544 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack openmediavault-omvextrasorg_latest_all3.deb ...
Unpacking openmediavault-omvextrasorg (3.4.4) over (3.4.3) ...
Setting up openmediavault-omvextrasorg (3.4.4) ...
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
OK
Processing triggers for openmediavault (3.0.50) ...
Updating locale files ...
Updating file permissions ...
Purging internal cache ...
Restarting engine daemon ...
root@N5200:~# apt-get update
Ign file: InRelease
Ign file: Release.gpg
Ign file: Release
Ign http://ftp.belnet.be jessie InRelease
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates InRelease
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates InRelease
Hit http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus InRelease
Get:1 https://dl.bintray.com jessie InRelease
Ign https://dl.bintray.com jessie InRelease
Ign file: Translation-en_US
Ign file: Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie Release
Hit http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports InRelease
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free Sources
Get:2 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main i386 Packages/DiffIndex [5,932 B]
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib i386 Packages
Get:3 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free i386 Packages/DiffIndex [736 B]
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib Translation-en
Get:4 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main Translation-en/DiffIndex [2,704 B]
Get:5 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free Translation-en/DiffIndex [736 B]
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie Release
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Sources
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Sources
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Sources
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main i386 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib i386 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free i386 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Translation-en
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Translation-en
Hit http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Translation-en
Hit http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus/main i386 Packages
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main i386 Packages
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main Translation-en
Get:6 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/main i386 Packages/DiffIndex [27.8 kB]
Ign http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus/main Translation-en_US
Get:7 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib i386 Packages/DiffIndex [18.8 kB]
Get:8 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib Translation-en/DiffIndex [5,500 B]
Get:9 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/main Translation-en/DiffIndex [27.8 kB]
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main i386 Packages
Ign http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus/main Translation-en
Get:10 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Get:11 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:12 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Get:13 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:14 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Get:15 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:16 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Get:17 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:18 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Ign https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en_US
Get:19 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Ign https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Fetched 90.0 kB in 11s (7,787 B/s)
Creating index of upgradeable packages ...
Creating index of openmediavault plugins ...
Reading package lists... Done
root@N5200:~# -
3.0.50 is installed
dpkg -l | grep omv
aii openmediavault-omvextrasorg 3.4.3 aii OMV-Extras.org Package Repositories for OmenMediaVault
Backports install still doesn't work, same error as before
File system creation still interrupts and causes the NAS to reboot
Wiping on that drive also doesn't workAppreciate all your help so far
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Logfile for the back ports update, it does this every time i update. Is this another indication that the file is not installing anywhere?
Ign file: InRelease
Ign file: Release.gpg
Ign file: Release
Ign file: Translation-en
Hit http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus InRelease
Ign http://ftp.belnet.be jessie InRelease
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates InRelease
Get:1 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates InRelease [63.1 kB]
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie Release
Hit http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus/main i386 Packages
Hit http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports InRelease
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free Sources
Get:2 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main i386 Packages/DiffIndex [5932 B]
Get:3 https://dl.bintray.com jessie InRelease
Ign https://dl.bintray.com jessie InRelease
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib i386 Packages
Get:4 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free i386 Packages/DiffIndex [736 B]
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/contrib Translation-en
Get:5 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/main Translation-en/DiffIndex [2704 B]
Get:6 http://ftp.belnet.be jessie-updates/non-free Translation-en/DiffIndex [736 B]
Ign http://packages.openmediavault.org erasmus/main Translation-en
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main Sources
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main i386 Packages
Hit http://ftp.belnet.be jessie/main Translation-en
Get:7 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Sources [164 kB]
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie Release
Get:8 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Sources [1439 B]
Get:9 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Sources [14 B]
Get:10 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main i386 Packages [313 kB]
Get:11 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib i386 Packages [2526 B]
Get:12 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free i386 Packages [14 B]
Get:13 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/contrib Translation-en [1211 B]
Get:14 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/main Translation-en [168 kB]
Get:15 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/main i386 Packages/DiffIndex [27.8 kB]
Get:16 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib i386 Packages/DiffIndex [18.8 kB]
Get:17 http://security.debian.org jessie/updates/non-free Translation-en [14 B]
Hit https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main i386 Packages
Get:18 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/main Translation-en/DiffIndex [27.8 kB]
Get:19 http://httpredir.debian.org jessie-backports/contrib Translation-en/DiffIndex [5500 B]
Get:20 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:21 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:22 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:23 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Get:24 https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Ign https://dl.bintray.com jessie/main Translation-en
Creating index of upgradeable packages ...
Creating index of openmediavault plugins ...
Fetched 803 kB in 16s (48.0 kB/s)
Reading package lists...
Done... -
scrap that, output is
aii openmediavault-omvextrasorg 3.4.3 aii OMV-Extras.org Package Repositories for OmenMediaVault
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says command not found, must mean i'm doing something wrong but whatever i try it keeps giving me this error as well as "unknown option -1 "
-
Hi,
Updated the extras 3 times now but still get the same error in the GUI when installing back ports kernel. if i try it through the NAS console then it gives me the exact same error i have send you earlier and is still referencing to 586 instead of 686.
-
Apologies for the old fashioned solution, pics are numbered 1 to 6
-
that is quite an output file, have to figure out how to do this from the GUI because i can't copy from the console attached to my NAS
-
-
install backports 4.7 kernel and headers
Reading package lists...Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information...Done
E: Unable to locate package linux-image-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-586
E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'linux-image-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-586'
E: Unable to locate package linux headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-586
E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'linux-headers-4.7.0-0.bpo.1-586' -
-bash: omv-mkconfig: command not found
-
Sorry, messed up. Just found i hadn't actually installed the backports kernel, just tried to correct that mistake and get the below error.
Error #0:exception 'OMV\ExecException' with message 'Failed to execute command 'export PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin; export LANG=C; omv-mkconf omvextras installbackports': Install backports 4.7 kernel and headersReading package lists...Building dependency tree...Reading state information...' in /usr/share/openmediavault/engined/rpc/omvextrasorg.inc:241Stack trace:#0 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpc/serviceabstract.inc(528): OMVRpcServiceOmvExtras->{closure}('/tmp/bgstatuspq...', '/tmp/bgoutputRb...')#1 /usr/share/openmediavault/engined/rpc/omvextrasorg.inc(244): OMV\Rpc\ServiceAbstract->execBgProc(Object(Closure))#2 [internal function]: OMVRpcServiceOmvExtras->doCommand(Array, Array)#3 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpc/serviceabstract.inc(124): call_user_func_array(Array, Array)#4 /usr/share/php/openmediavault/rpc/rpc.inc(84): OMV\Rpc\ServiceAbstract->callMethod('doCommand', Array, Array)#5 /usr/sbin/omv-engined(516): OMV\Rpc\Rpc::call('OmvExtras', 'doCommand', Array, Array, 1)#6 {main}
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All green, no faults reported. I hadn't enabled SMART , was waiting for the NAS to be production ready so to speak.
-
I sure hope not, it is visible in Physical disks and i can select it when i was building the other raid , not sure if that means it is still in good condition. The fault it showed before was similar to what the Raid1 file system build did and that one eventually cleared so....
-
The two drives that comprise Raid 1 haven successfully build the file system and are now syncing. I had tried to do the 3rd HDD as well but that still failed so i will wait until the sync operation has finished.
Thank you for your assistance
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Thank you for you super fast reply
OK, backport kernel is installed, can i just retry the file system build or are there any steps to follow before?