Thoughts on OMV 0.4, ISOLinux, SysLinux & older systems.

PhantomSens · 7. April 2013

Been reading about the install issues with OMV 0.4 and serial ports on what may be older systems, where the "installer" hangs up while "ISOLINUX..." Granted some are new mini ITX boards.

I read about ISOLinux here http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/ISOLINUX and the section "What to do when nothing works..." and that ISOLinux may simply not work. Not good.

I have an older system - MSI K7N2 motherboard - and OMV 0.4 simply refuses to install. I've tried disabling the serial ports along with many other things on that mobo and it still refuses to install OMV 0.4 While other boot/installer CD's work.

I still have not figured out why, but have thought about it and what it may mean for the entire OMV community.

My thoughts are there are people trying OMV and if it hangs/fails to install they simply move on to another piece of software/hardware, rather than read or post here in the forums. I know there are many times when I try software and if it does not do what I want I move on. I won't post in forums, because it means registering and so forth.

So in my thinking the install process needs improving. So when it does hang it says why, much like the 64bit version does when trying to install on a 32bit processor. I don't know if it is possible to do this though.

The changes may allow for a larger installed base of OMV and all the benefits/pitfalls it creates.

Another thought would be to include the 32 & 64 bit versions in one ISO and have the installer test which version to install and install it.

SerErris · 7. April 2013

I agree to the the ISOLINUX stuff, but I think, that this is mainly a debian x.y version thing, which goes away with next release of OMV. It is nothing in ISOLINUX itself, but simply the debian installer has a problem (or better, the current debian installer image).

For the part of 32 and 64bit. It would only double the size of the installer with no real benefit. The default should be by today the 64bit, and only if it does not install, you need to use the 32bit version of it. The reason for that is, that the limits within a 32bit environment for disk sizes and volume sizes etc. pp. are too limited.

tekkb · 8. April 2013

If your motherboard and cpu are 64 bit capable there is no reason to even think about 32 bit. Have you tried installing .3 ISO and upgrading to .4. That is the route I would take. It is not that difficult. I've done way more then my fair share of OMV installs. You can also install squeeze then put OMV on top of the already installed Debian Squeeze. We have done some things I think will help this community that other nas software have not even thought of yet. If you think OMV is hurting just look at number of downloads on Sourceforge. Especially look at the how many vms are getting downloaded. OMV is growing and when .5 documentation is ready I think we will see more developers making plugins.

To upgrade from .3 make sure you don't install any plugins after installing .3 ISO.
Then:
apt-get update
apt-get -f install
apt-get upgrade (to get to lastest version of .3 omnius)

Then edit this file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/openmediavault.list
so that is has this content:

Code

deb http://packages.openmediavault.org/public fedaykin main

Then:
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade

That's it.......
Also, if you look at my signature on this post you will see link to thread to install 3rd Party Plugins in .4 Fedaykin.

PhantomSens · 8. April 2013

My thoughts are to improve OMV to be the best it can be and that to me is to have OMV be better than what the NAS box manufacturers offer.

I think the point I was trying to make may have been missed. It was to make OMV as easy and simple as possible to install. That is why the idea to include both 32 & 64 bit versions in one ISO. Even if it did double the size of the download, it would still fit on one CD. Yes I know there are places where users have to pay for their bandwidth, so it may be good to have the 32 & 64 bit available separately. But if they were available as one download for those who can use it. It seems to me it would make it easier, especially for newbies.

Another thought about the 32/64 bit versions. Since the 64 bit version will tell you it can not run on a 32 bit machine, what about the 32 bit version doing a test to see if the 64 bit version could be installed and having it say so. It would let people know if they could run the 64 bit version. This idea may negate the idea of both versions in one ISO.

I've been reading about the 0.3 install then upgrade to the 0.4 route for my odd motherboard. I appreciate the thorough and complete directions to do so, and will end up doing that to get OMV on that setup.

Yet I can not help but think about the first time user who may not have experienced OMV and runs across this and I think they will just pass OMV and move on. I wonder how many have.

Just my thoughts.

KM0201 · 14. April 2013

Zitat von "DaveVM"

My thoughts are to improve OMV to be the best it can be and that to me is to have OMV be better than what the NAS box manufacturers offer.

I think the point I was trying to make may have been missed. It was to make OMV as easy and simple as possible to install. That is why the idea to include both 32 & 64 bit versions in one ISO. Even if it did double the size of the download, it would still fit on one CD. Yes I know there are places where users have to pay for their bandwidth, so it may be good to have the 32 & 64 bit available separately. But if they were available as one download for those who can use it. It seems to me it would make it easier, especially for newbies.

Another thought about the 32/64 bit versions. Since the 64 bit version will tell you it can not run on a 32 bit machine, what about the 32 bit version doing a test to see if the 64 bit version could be installed and having it say so. It would let people know if they could run the 64 bit version. This idea may negate the idea of both versions in one ISO.

I've been reading about the 0.3 install then upgrade to the 0.4 route for my odd motherboard. I appreciate the thorough and complete directions to do so, and will end up doing that to get OMV on that setup.

Yet I can not help but think about the first time user who may not have experienced OMV and runs across this and I think they will just pass OMV and move on. I wonder how many have.

Just my thoughts.

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Man, where to start... I'll try to be brief.

IMO.. OMV is already better than the NAS boxes that are offered by various manufacturers. Why do you think there's so many threads/how to's to install OMV on QNaps, ReadyNas's, etc?

To be blunt.. Combining 32/64bit is just plain foolish and makes no sense. Sorry to be so blunt, but thats the way it is. If you're not smart enough to pay attention to which ISO you're downloading, then the odds of you ever getting anywhere with OMV is slim to none. You need to stick to one of the manufactured NAS boxes. No version of Linux (to my knowledge) does this, and Linux is doing just fine. I don't see how this makes anything easier anyway. It might even make things more difficult when someone accidentally picks the wrong version to install during setup.

As for the serial port issues, etc.. as said, that's all a Debian problem. Like was stated above, I suspect in the next Debian release, that will be a distant memory. Really what Debian does with it's installer, is out of Volker's hands.

If you're smart enough to build your own NAS box, you should be smart enough to do the things you're mentioning in your posts (ie, choose 32 or 64bit, etc..)

Personally, having used OMV since .2, I think OMV is going nowhere but up. Volker seems to have a pretty good vision on where he wants OMV to go. Frankly.. I'm just glad to be along for the ride.

PhantomSens · 14. April 2013

Again I believe the point I am trying to make was missed. I want OMV to be the best - better than the commercial NAS offerings, beat them feature for feature - simple enough to use and install - almost to the point of plug and play. Not for me - but for the average user who just replaced their computer and want to reuse their old one.

There is at least one thread here in the forum where someone installed the 32bit version and could have used the 64bit. Why did they choose the 32 instead of the 64? Who knows. Maybe they didn't know they could. It could be like people who do not know what type of engine is in their car, I4, I6, V6, V8... And they do not care, so long as their car starts and goes. So combining the 32 & 64 into one ISO and letting the install routine decide the version makes sense to me because the user will get the best performance from their machine.

The serial port issue I understand is a Debian thing, though it shows up when installing OMV. Question is, where does the user place the blame if they do not know? On OMV. Why? Because to them other things installed on their machine, so in their mind the problem is not at their end.

I believe in the Keeping It Silly Simple (KISS) principle. Because the simpler it is, the easier it is to use. The less it has to be supported, allowing more time for improvement.

I too see many good things in OMV's future and greatly appreciate all Volker and the other devs have done and continue to do.

ryecoaaron · 15. April 2013

It doesn't "hurt" to install the 32 bit version. Most file servers don't need more than 3 gigs of ram so using 32 bit won't hurt anything. Ubuntu still recommends 32 bit and most people select what is recommended.

KM0201 · 15. April 2013

Zitat von "DaveVM"

Again I believe the point I am trying to make was missed. I want OMV to be the best - better than the commercial NAS offerings, beat them feature for feature - simple enough to use and install - almost to the point of plug and play. Not for me - but for the average user who just replaced their computer and want to reuse their old one.

There is at least one thread here in the forum where someone installed the 32bit version and could have used the 64bit. Why did they choose the 32 instead of the 64? Who knows. Maybe they didn't know they could. It could be like people who do not know what type of engine is in their car, I4, I6, V6, V8... And they do not care, so long as their car starts and goes. So combining the 32 & 64 into one ISO and letting the install routine decide the version makes sense to me because the user will get the best performance from their machine.

The serial port issue I understand is a Debian thing, though it shows up when installing OMV. Question is, where does the user place the blame if they do not know? On OMV. Why? Because to them other things installed on their machine, so in their mind the problem is not at their end.

I believe in the Keeping It Silly Simple (KISS) principle. Because the simpler it is, the easier it is to use. The less it has to be supported, allowing more time for improvement.

I too see many good things in OMV's future and greatly appreciate all Volker and the other devs have done and continue to do.

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Your point is not being missed, it just makes no sense. Repeating the same thing over and over, doesn't make it "make sense". If you're ideas were so great, people would be agreeing with them. Please point out 1 distro that puts the 32 and 64bit OS on one ISO image... like I said, I'm not aware of any. You're trying to reinvent the wheel under the guise of "keeping it silly simple" when this is just not needed. There will always be a certain level of complexity to OMV that the manufactured NAS does not have. Why is this? Simple, because all the work to get them to their working state, was done by the manufacturer. With OMV, essentially, "you" are he manufacturer. Saying you want OMV to be "plug and play" means you don't understand what an operating system is.

How much easier could OMV be to install? You answer a few questions, set a root password, hit enter a few times, and it's installed. How many threads are there here regarding installation problems? (that aren't related to the serial port issue). The only people posting probs, are people trying to install on unique devices (rasbery pi's, etc.. or trying to install OMV on top of another OS). There are almost no threads from people using the OMV ISO to put OMV on a normal computer. This tells me the installation procedure is just fine for the average user. The stuff you're making comments about, make absolutely zero sense

PhantomSens · 15. April 2013

Telephones, electricity, cars, __________ (insert most anything) didn't make sense, when they first came about. But yet we all use them and take them for granted today. All we can do is agree to disagree.

tekkb · 15. April 2013

Let's not get in a tizzy guys. We all want the same thing. The best NAS software. Remember, this is not a gaming forum. This is a place to shares ideas, help people and promote OMV. Taxes done. Thank God!!

KM0201 · 15. April 2013

Zitat von "tekkbebe"

Let's not get in a tizzy guys. We all want the same thing. The best NAS software. Remember, this is not a gaming forum. This is a place to shares ideas, help people and promote OMV. Taxes done. Thank God!!

Nobody is in a tizzy (at least I wasn't)... but a bad idea is a bad idea.

If there was some rampant problem with installing OMV, then maybe there'd need to be some new direction.. but.. for the most part, there's very few installation problems.

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