In my opinion what Seagate (and all other hard drive manufacturers) should do is be a little more transparent and adapt their firmware so that the SMART results are completely useful. If Seagate is not doing this it is because it is not interested in doing so. You just have to think a little to realize why, it would be too easy to request an RMA.
SMART failing in new disk
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- OMV 7.x
- boreack
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However you are suggesting that SMART is not a reliable tool for determining the status of a Seagate hard drive.
Nope, that isn't what I said. I said it was the INTERPRETATION of SMART results that lead to people calling support. I did say that Seagate will track correctable errors in the RAW category, which winds up making people freak out and claim a failing drive.
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In my opinion what Seagate (and all other hard drive manufacturers) should do is be a little more transparent and adapt their firmware so that the SMART results are completely useful. If Seagate is not doing this it is because it is not interested in doing so. You just have to think a little to realize why, it would be too easy to request an RMA.
I just don't understand why you are interpreting my first message as somehow Seatools lacking transparency. If anything, it's TOO TRANSPARENT by keeping a count on correctable errors and seek errors, which are normal in any HDD.
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Below is a snip from one of Seagate Support's emails. My response to this was that the number of reallocated sectors was growing quickly. Their reply was to RMA the drive and replace it under warranty, which as I have said, was the right thing to do.
However, their written stance of not supporting their drives under Linux (whatever that really means) was enough for me to decide to not purchase any more of them.
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At Seagate, we are highly specialized in technical support for drives which are used in Windows and Macintosh Operating Systems. However, sometimes, there are customers who use Unix/Linux OS and ask for support from us, nevertheless, the Linux Operating Systems are highly malleable with drivers and applications that have no customization boundaries. For these reasons, Seagate offers no technical support for drives under Linux Operating System. We apologize for not being equipped to handle these cases.
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Thats a completely absurd statement in it's wording. Seagate drives are used in a lot of linux servers made by their OEM partners such as supermicro, Dell, IBM, etc., let alone people that are building their own.
That is just a blanket "average consumer" kind of statement. I have not had a lot of seagate drives fail prematurely compared to some other manufacturers percentage wise (some of those manufacturers don't exist anymore), but I don't even try calling their support. I just check the warranty status online and if it's still good, RMA it right there and then.
Out of warranty is a different story of course as then I have to buy a replacement.
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Well this is interesting, I decided to poke around the Seagate website and found there is a Linux version of Seatools. I have no idea if it's the same as Windows.
SeaTools | Support Seagate USSeaTools - Quick diagnostic tool that checks the health of your drive.www.seagate.com -
a completely absurd statement
Is it? What kind of support do you expect for a random consumer SATA drive? They're not going to walk you through using losetup and mounting a loop device. Quantum, Maxtor, Samsung... none of them would help with partitioning or OS specifics (well, maybe if the tech. was bored). I don't see Seagate helping any more or less than Western Digital or anyone else.
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Is it? What kind of support do you expect for a random consumer SATA drive? They're not going to walk you through using losetup and mounting a loop device. Quantum, Maxtor, Samsung... none of them would help with partitioning or OS specifics (well, maybe if the tech. was bored). I don't see Seagate helping any more or less than Western Digital or anyone else.
It is because to say they offer no technical support for a seagate drive paired with liniux operating system is absurd. They either support their hardware or they don't. The operating system is irrelevent. If the wording said that they offer no technical diagnosis tools for linux I could understand it, but that is not what the wording says.
I am commenting about the wording of the message, not the brand., I realize they still support their hardware, it's just absurd wording in the message.
I love seagate drives. I buy noting else (exos and ironwolf depending on the use case) because I have had a higher failure rate in WD. Fujitsu, toshiba, and hitachi no longer exist (bought by WD) and seagate bought maxtor and quantum. Quantum used to be my preferred enterprise grade drive until 25 years ago when they were bought by seagate, and since then I I have tried all the rest. Hitachi was good, but now that WD owns them, I am skeptical as I have had a high failure rate with WD 3.5" drives in general (probably 20% to 30% when I have used them) but a much lower failure rate with seagate (probably 5% or so). WD 2.5 inch drives have not been an issue for me in general.
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I just don't understand why you are interpreting my first message as somehow Seatools lacking transparency. If anything, it's TOO TRANSPARENT by keeping a count on correctable errors and seek errors, which are normal in any HDD.
Reading your first post again...
Incorrect or invalid SMART interpretations are one of the biggest issues with "no problem found" failure returns. Often it comes down to third party software that isn't following the protocol and starts throwing red flags with the presence of raw counts. That is why Seagate support is asking people to run the Seatools software because it's written in a way to separate garden variety errors from catastrophic issues.
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I get the fact that Seatools is Windows only and not everyone wants to bother finding a Windows box and a USB/SATA adapter. Unfortunately that is the best software to determine if the drive has an onset of a lethal condition.My interpretation of this is that you cannot use SMART to determine the status of a hard drive. And also there is no other tool for Linux. And that is the only thing I have said so far and on which I have based my arguments.
Well this is interesting, I decided to poke around the Seagate website and found there is a Linux version of Seatools.
Fortunately I see that you were wrong and that Seagate has a tool for Linux as you stated later. That changes things a bit.
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Is normal to have some bad sectors in new disk?
No. Return it and have the seller replace it with another disk.
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News about the disk.This night I pass a complete sector analysis and found the bad sector, located about the 80% of the disk, where the OMV SMART test and SeaTools test failed/aborted.
Soo, marking this sector as bad somehow is possible to get a complete working disk? Is normal to have some bad sectors in new disk?
Greetings.
It is normal for a new disk to have bad sectors, but they are mapped and marked in the factory, with the map being programmed into a chip on the electronics board. You should not have user discovered bad sectors on a new disk.
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Fortunately I see that you were wrong and that Seagate has a tool for Linux as you stated later. That changes things a bit.
I wasn't one who originally stated there was no Linux support. I went by what the OP stated. I don't spend time on the external website.
I also get the sense that I will always be "wrong" no matter what I say to you.
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I wasn't one who originally stated there was no Linux support. I went by what the OP stated. I don't spend time on the external website.
Very good, you weren't wrong, someone else was wrong and you validated it. Since you said you work at Seagate I didn't question it.
I think you're taking this all too far.
I also get the sense that I will always be "wrong" no matter what I say to you.
It seems to me that everything I have said so far is reasoned, correct me if I am wrong. And I also assume that you will never agree to anything anyway. You are too involved with one of the parties, you are not impartial.
I understand that it is not pleasant for you that the work of the company you work for is questioned. But you should also understand the OP's situation. If you buy a hard drive that is not in perfect condition, you must have the right to return it and be given another completely new hard drive in perfect condition. I don't care who is to blame, it could be SMART, the courier who knocked the package, the Seagate employee who did not do the Quality Control job correctly, or the manufacturer in Vietnam of one of the components of the hard drive that didn't sleep well that day and a piece came out defective. No one should question this, neither Seagate nor the President of the UN.
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